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  #41  
Old 09.07.2010, 15:52
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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Despite a lot of "Billy Big-Chat" on the forum, I think it would take most of us mere-mortals a while to build up the fitness just to get the 5 qualifying points required to enter UTMB.

I have only qualified once in the past 3 years, but then had the foresight not to even dream of trying for UTMB as it would likely have been a valley or seven too far!
Happy hiking
It seems to be 4 points now, congrats on qualifing in the past.

The CCC Race could be a slightly easier option for you, only 1 point is required to qualify. It's 98k's
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  #42  
Old 09.07.2010, 16:00
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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It seems to be 4 points now, congrats on qualifing in the past.

The CCC Race could be a slightly easier option for you, only 1 point is required to qualify. It's 98k's
A gentle reminder guys, as Assassin pointed out, this thread is not for racers.

This thread is more for people who like enjoying some solitude and some challenging hikes in the mountains. There are a lot of threads dedicated to running races.

Now, thanks for listening
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  #43  
Old 09.07.2010, 21:34
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

More data points:

Discussion of course angles, and climbing rates up to 2000 m/hour for 25 minutes:
http://www.skintrack.com/skimo-racin...g-slope-angle/

24-hour running record 17675 meters running (don't know about descent, the 17575 record descended by chairlift).
http://www.skyrunning.com/images//wo...ds_22_2_10.pdf

11 ascents of Mont Ventoux in 24 hours, 1617 meters each (17787 total), average climbing rate of 741 m/hour including descents:
http://www.velo101.com/cyclosport/archive/10444
The single-climb record is 55:51, an ascent rate of 1737 m/hour.

17650 meters (Monte Bondone 23 times) in 24 hours: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news/...ct02/oct21news

Messner claimed to do 1000m in 30 minutes every week in training. This number seems dubious, the 34 minutes from a different source sounds more plausible.

11452 meters for 6 ascents of Mt Shasta, ski descent:
http://pweb.jps.net/~prichins/shastarw.htm

12162 meters in 23:47, 175 km, all running: http://www.mh.k313.com/mh/fell/bg/24HourRecord.html
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  #44  
Old 10.07.2010, 20:04
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

Looking for the next alpine hike, any ideas, offers for partnership are welcome. I guess I am happier doing T4s if venturing too far from home, but T5s are ok too.

Uri-Rotstock is an idea, if someone has any idea about this area or want to join pl get in touch with me.


p.s. Jed: thanks for showing up and kicking my butt (it still hurts ) in the Mythen 3 peak hike. After a 50km warm-up ride, hope you also enjoyed the 50km cool-down ride
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  #45  
Old 12.07.2010, 23:13
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

I don't think 800m climbing per hour is delusional. It's my standard walk/trot pace around Chamonix for a good morning out & I'm way off my best form these years. To give you an idea of what's really tough, the record up & down Mont Blanc from Cham is about 5hours, with 3,800m of climbing. I once tried to keep up the required pace on one stretch & exploded after 20min. However, the tough part is getting down fast.
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  #46  
Old 12.07.2010, 23:22
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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I don't think 800m climbing per hour is delusional. It's my standard walk/trot pace around Chamonix for a good morning out & I'm way off my best form these years. To give you an idea of what's really tough, the record up & down Mont Blanc from Cham is about 5hours, with 3,800m of climbing. I once tried to keep up the required pace on one stretch & exploded after 20min. However, the tough part is getting down fast.
It is not. On fresh legs I can manage 500m in 30 mins on Holzegg- Grosse Mythen section which is far from smooth, so about 1000m an hour, of course I will drop down severely after a few hours. I think Sylvain can manage 1100-1200m in one hour.

I recently met a guy who I think can manage over 1600m in one hour, and sustain 1000m an hour for a many hours. Details
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  #47  
Old 12.07.2010, 23:33
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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I don't think 800m climbing per hour is delusional. It's my standard walk/trot pace around Chamonix for a good morning out & I'm way off my best form these years. To give you an idea of what's really tough, the record up & down Mont Blanc from Cham is about 5hours, with 3,800m of climbing. I once tried to keep up the required pace on one stretch & exploded after 20min. However, the tough part is getting down fast.
I can't blame you for not reading the whole thread, but it was about a pace to be sustained (by Niranjan) during 8-12hrs.
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  #48  
Old 13.07.2010, 08:38
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

I've never measured pace, and I'm not about to start. I do feel more inclined to power up hills and mountains and just watch it coming down though. You're more likely to fall flat on your face or break limbs during the descent. I've never hurt myself falling "uphill".
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  #49  
Old 13.07.2010, 08:46
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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I can't blame you for not reading the whole thread, but it was about a pace to be sustained (by Niranjan) during 8-12hrs.
Maybe you should read the whole thread again. Which claims were specifically about me, which ones were general, and which ones were about my ex-running partner (you).
Anyway I am seriously beyond wanting to prove anything, especially to you, not that your opinion about my max sustaining pace will have any impact on how much I will enjoy hiking.

p.s. the next event is up on the calendar, for those who may be at least remotely interested in participating.
Thanks
N
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  #50  
Old 13.07.2010, 08:57
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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Maybe you should read the whole thread again. Which claims were specifically about me, which ones were general, and which ones were about my ex-running partner (you).
Anyway I am seriously beyond wanting to prove anything, especially to you, not that your opinion about my max sustaining pace will have any impact on how much I will enjoy hiking.

p.s. the next event is up on the calendar, for those who may be at least remotely interested in participating.
Thanks
N
Sorry you take it this way. I didn't mean to make any comment about our respective paces (like you, I really don't care about all this). I meant that the discussion was about the ascent pace that "somebody normal" (like you or me) could sustain for 8-12hrs. I thought we agreed that this pace was well slower than what you wrote in your very first post. And that it didn't matter anyway.
My only intention in writing in this thread was to make sure that nobody was needlessly scared away from your hikes because of these (incorrect) numbers. Happy hiking!
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  #51  
Old 13.07.2010, 09:06
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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My only intention in writing in this thread was to make sure that nobody was needlessly scared away from your hikes because of these (incorrect) numbers. Happy hiking!
Ok, that is fair, thanks. Yes, scaring away people is the last thing I wanted to do. We did agree on what is a reasonable target for most of us.

I have stopped making any mention of hiking pace in the events now
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  #52  
Old 13.07.2010, 14:12
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

I'll go out on a limb for my next hiking post, here's a sample:

"Setting forth at 02:00am, we'll pick up a remote mountain goat trail, discerning the route using NVG and starting off at a 150/kcal per 5km horizontal, 23.65 degree incline for the first section......."
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  #53  
Old 13.07.2010, 15:29
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

Your hikes sound.... fun. Though far too fast for my pathetic fitness level! I do Pilatus in closer to 2.5 - 3 hours up .

If you're planning on spending mega-bucks on train/bahn tickets for the descent, it may pay off in the long run to train yourself up and fly one of these down: http://gingliders.com/paragliding/yeti-8.php

I can highly recommend it ... and weighing in at only 4kg, carrying that would hardly slow you mountain goats down!

Though doesn't it do your guys' knees in doing so many ascents (training your hamstrings) and then not doing the descents to train your quads?
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  #54  
Old 13.07.2010, 16:03
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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Your hikes sound.... fun. Though far too fast for my pathetic fitness level! I do Pilatus in closer to 2.5 - 3 hours up .

If you're planning on spending mega-bucks on train/bahn tickets for the descent, it may pay off in the long run to train yourself up and fly one of these down: http://gingliders.com/paragliding/yeti-8.php

I can highly recommend it ... and weighing in at only 4kg, carrying that would hardly slow you mountain goats down!

Though doesn't it do your guys' knees in doing so many ascents (training your hamstrings) and then not doing the descents to train your quads?
Just to be sure, my best time (and only) time has been 2h 40 in semi-winter condition, it is only my guess that I could do in about 2-2'15 with company in summer, and that would be my hardest effort, hardly different from yours. Nope, the glider is too much for wimps like me, I am even scared of playing football and running on streets

Assassin, your story line is interesting, but alpine routes seldom have slopes less than 30 degrees, plus summit are often not reachable by mountain goats, so if you modify it a bit I can consider hiring you for this task. Until then, you can post here

On a more serious note, I don't understand what's with people, if cyclists can use bike comps and measure their speeds, runners can go to organised races just to know their PBs and use garmins on their evening runs, why can't hikers do likewise How much more hypocritical can we get. Isn't it useful to have a good understanding of your limits before attempting such hikes?
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  #55  
Old 14.07.2010, 11:49
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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On a more serious note, I don't understand what's with people, if cyclists can use bike comps and measure their speeds, runners can go to organised races just to know their PBs and use garmins on their evening runs, why can't hikers do likewise
I personally think it is down to what hiking is about. Hiking isn't about trying to maintain fitness, achieve personal goals, or race against someone else. In fact all of those boil down to beating the clock - and hiking isn't the sort of activities that fall into that category.

I like hiking quickly - and have no problem "beating" the estimated hike time signs - but that isn't the aim of hiking.

The ability to move quickly over terrain is more fell/trail/hill running.

PS Tomorrow evening is off - I have drinks with a former colleague - and temps are looking high. Next Wednesday would be an suitable option with me.
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  #56  
Old 14.07.2010, 16:33
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

Thanks dear friends, my heart swells with gratitude at all your whole-hearted support for popularizing alpine hiking on the forum (3 pages and still counting).

Now dodgy, I entirely agree "beating" someone or beating the clock is hardly anyone's definition of hiking, TBH that is one of the reasons I lost interest in races in favor of more relaxed and self-sufficient hiking.

However I disagree with your implication that performance measurement is somehow less important to alpine hiking than it is to, say racing or biking. On the contrary (and the more experienced alpine hikers among you can correct me), I feel measuring and knowing your max climbing/walking paces, and knowing how to calibrate it to route conditions, and building a factor of safety, is extremely important to any mountain walker, not to mention alpine hiker and mountaineer. It is not a question of ego massage/personal accomplishment as in amateur racers, more to do with your personal safety in the mountains.

Sorry, when I post something on the subject I do expect some serious thought on performance/abilities, if you are interested in hiking with me you will have to bear with me on this, otherwise the forum is teeming with races and metrics, you are welcome to post there

Yeah, next wed might suit me too, let's pm closer to the day to confirm.

p.s. hill running/fell running is very different from alpine hiking.
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  #57  
Old 14.07.2010, 16:38
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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...

p.s. hill running/fell running is very different from alpine hiking.
I assure you that it's not very different when you're on an exposed alpine ridge in a thunderstorm.
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  #58  
Old 14.07.2010, 16:43
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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I assure you that it's not very different when you're on an exposed alpine ridge in a thunderstorm.
Yes, I just came back to edit that part, but there you go. Agreed.
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  #59  
Old 14.07.2010, 16:47
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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However I disagree with your implication that performance measurement is somehow less important to alpine hiking than it is to, say racing or biking. On the contrary (and the more experienced alpine hikers among you can correct me), I feel measuring and knowing your max climbing/walking paces, and knowing how to calibrate it to route conditions, and building a factor of safety, is extremely important to any mountain walker, not to mention alpine hiker and mountaineer. It is not a question of ego massage/personal accomplishment as in amateur racers, more to do with your personal safety in the mountains.
When the weather changes and the cloud rolls in I would much rather have a good waterproof, map & compass than get lost but know my maximum climb rate. When it comes to personal safety i would leave it at the fact that most of the contributors here are adults with a modicum of common-sense. No need to preach to us and we leave the rest to those with more experience.
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Old 14.07.2010, 16:47
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Re: Alpine hiking (Adult content. Parental discretion advised)

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I assure you that it's not very different when you're on an exposed alpine ridge in a thunderstorm.
Beat me to it!
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