Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Activities > Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10.08.2010, 19:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Of course the internet and health magazines is where you should look for all your medical answers, oh, as long as they are not reputable medical institutions or accredited medical/scientific bodies.

So how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I say 37!
so far you quoted something about teenage girls. how about a reputed internationally recognized scientific journal saying whey protein will destroy the Kidneys.

Otherwise I may as well get my advice from superman lol...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10.08.2010, 19:22
Uncle GroOve's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mendrisio
Posts: 1,082
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 733 Times in 382 Posts
Uncle GroOve has a reputation beyond reputeUncle GroOve has a reputation beyond reputeUncle GroOve has a reputation beyond reputeUncle GroOve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Friend of mine races MTB. He has an incredible body (said in totally non gay manner). He's very careful with his diet, and does take dietary supplements in form of proteins, etc, besides being an avid student of all the cellular interactions that happen within the muscles
He was very quick to point out to me that the combined stress of training + plenty of protein does take a toll on the liver. His is enlarged, not because of alcohol intake or whatnot, just because of the hard sports+protein combo.
We should all remember that building muscle mass is a function of "stress" in the system... after all when we workout hard we always push the envelope to the point of discomfort (and some individuals go to the point of pain).

Having said this I wouldn't be afraid to eat/drink whey as a dietary supplement, provided that no funky chemicals have been added. Sure beats yeast (which I used to take many many moons ago).

Oh - and you may remember that Rivella - the delicious drink which so many americans and britons love to hate (check out the threads!) - is made from whey ;-)

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10.08.2010, 19:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
so far you quoted something about teenage girls. how about a reputed internationally recognized scientific journal saying whey protein will destroy the Kidneys.

Otherwise I may as well get my advice from superman lol...
Maybe you should read the article from the British Dietetic Association (a highly accredited medical institution associated with the BMA and the British Nephrology association again. I take it you don't accept information unless there are oversized pictures of greased muscle men straining to smile and flex at the same time in the same article. I didn't at any time say positive evidence as in study after study confirming it, there is a cause for concern, link:- http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts....rol/332-1.html

There is no scientific data to suggest that exceeding your RDA dose of protein will aid your body building / sport.

Last edited by JonnyLaRock!; 10.08.2010 at 19:58.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10.08.2010, 21:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe you should read the article from the British Dietetic Association (a highly accredited medical institution associated with the BMA and the British Nephrology association again. I take it you don't accept information unless there are oversized pictures of greased muscle men straining to smile and flex at the same time in the same article. I didn't at any time say positive evidence as in study after study confirming it, there is a cause for concern, link:- http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts....rol/332-1.html

There is no scientific data to suggest that exceeding your RDA dose of protein will aid your body building / sport.

What's this load of wank in your link got to do with what you're on about I even did a text search for RDA.. nothing.
Also its on about saturated fats. Of course they're bad for you. And it sort of concluded it needed to do more research, nice work.

And whilst were on RDA it's recommended, its not absolute. It does depend on your age sex size genetic makeup etc. Also you have factors consider such as your basic metabollic rate and calories burnt in activity for each given day. RDA which was bought in 1974 is to be updated shortly to a better set of guidlines.

For anyone interested, i used livestrong.com its a great site for tracking your daily intake, available on iphone too. Its an open database updated by the puplic so there's many foods from most common supermarkets covered in there plus fast food/takeaway etc. You can enter your training running jogggin etc and see how much approximately you are burning against consumption.

Okay say my Recommended Daily Intake/requirement of protein is 160grammes ive consumed 135 today and i take a 25g shot after working out? What's the problem?

I think youre just anti the whole concept of training and diet etc.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 10.08.2010, 22:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe you should read the article from the British Dietetic Association (a highly accredited medical institution associated with the BMA and the British Nephrology association again. I take it you don't accept information unless there are oversized pictures of greased muscle men straining to smile and flex at the same time in the same article. I didn't at any time say positive evidence as in study after study confirming it, there is a cause for concern, link:- http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts....rol/332-1.html

There is no scientific data to suggest that exceeding your RDA dose of protein will aid your body building / sport.
I accept information from anwhere where there is proof of a study. pity your dieting article your quoting doesnt have any.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11.08.2010, 00:24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
What's this load of wank in your link got to do with what you're on about I even did a text search for RDA.. nothing.
Also its on about saturated fats. Of course they're bad for you. And it sort of concluded it needed to do more research, nice work.

And whilst were on RDA it's recommended, its not absolute. It does depend on your age sex size genetic makeup etc. Also you have factors consider such as your basic metabollic rate and calories burnt in activity for each given day. RDA which was bought in 1974 is to be updated shortly to a better set of guidlines.

For anyone interested, i used livestrong.com its a great site for tracking your daily intake, available on iphone too. Its an open database updated by the puplic so there's many foods from most common supermarkets covered in there plus fast food/takeaway etc. You can enter your training running jogggin etc and see how much approximately you are burning against consumption.

Okay say my Recommended Daily Intake/requirement of protein is 160grammes ive consumed 135 today and i take a 25g shot after working out? What's the problem?

I think youre just anti the whole concept of training and diet etc.
Well if you're so interested to know about me personally, I was a university athlete, I won full colours for Men’s lacrosse, and also represented my country, I was also a county rower, although that is by the by. If you read the section of the article on the dangers of a high protein diet, I think you'll find Johns Hopkins University seems to concur with me. I have only cited medical institutions of high repute, where you have cited life style and body building 'science' web-sites. RDA is recommended for a balanced diet, your body only functions appropriately with balance, over loading one particular thing is not balance and it will be more difficult for your body to function at an optimum, it's very simple.

There is no supported scientific evidence showing a sporting or body building benefit to a heavily protein skewed diet, basics man your knowledge is 50 years out of date.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 11.08.2010, 00:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
I accept information from anwhere where there is proof of a study. pity your dieting article your quoting doesnt have any.
Health Concerns of High-Protein Diets
Several specific health concerns are associated with a diet that places such a heavy emphasis on the consumption of protein and the restriction of carbohydrate. Consuming too much protein places extra stress on the liver and kidneys because they have to metabolize and excrete more than normal amounts of waste products. Kidney stones can be caused or aggravated by the high uric acid levels created by high-protein foods. And for those who have diabetes or kidney disease, high-protein diets may speed the progression of kidney disease, even if the diet is followed for a short time. Furthermore, some studies suggest that eating too much protein causes excessive calcium loss, which can contribute to osteoporosis.


Restricting carbohydrate intake is unhealthy as well. Drastically reducing carbohydrate consumption increases the metabolism of fatty acids and causes ketosis. This condition results when excessive amounts of acidic substances known as ketone bodies are released into the bloodstream. Ketosis can be dangerous for people with known or unrecognized heart disease, diabetes, or kidney problems. In addition, restricting carbohydrates can lead to vitamin and mineral deficiencies.


Healthful, carbohydrate-rich foods, such as whole grains, fruits, and vegetables, provide essential nutrients as well as fiber and phytochemicals that work together to help prevent disease and promote good health. In fact, one of the basic underlying problems with most high-protein diets is their failure to promote a balanced diet and to teach long-term healthful eating habits.

It's from Johns Hopkins University dude, the best medical University in the world, it is from a white paper and it will have references in the original this is an excerpt. Medical advice should come from medical institutions, call me old fashioned...

This is pseudoscience vs science man, you ask me for verification and provide nothing but rubbish in return, where is your evidence that super-protein loading helps performance? And you have the audacity to pick holes in JHU’s research techniques…
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11.08.2010, 00:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

160g, sheesh that’s like 3 times your RDA, I hear having Kidney stones is like pissing razor blades... Do let us know what it’s like...
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11.08.2010, 05:10
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Schools don't like the use of protein shakes in competitive sports, but they know kids do it. As far as I know they give them a special diet, they have to make sure they get enough protein a few weeks before a meet then 2-3 dyas before they carb load. They are not under any circumstances allowed creatine. They say that it puts water in between the muscle layers, however I can't find anything negative about creatine on line. Isn't livestrong associated with Lance Armstrong? His foundation lobbies on behalf of cancer patients before United States Congress. Is Livestrong this foundation? One of the complaints about the Atkin's diet was the stress thst it placed on the kidneys. As live expectancies increase in countries like Switzerland, we should think of exercise and diet for the long term. It can be very interesting to see muscles grow where you never expected them, but coming off the diets or shakes and adapting to a long term strategy can be difficult. Basically people genetically have different shapes, Lance Armstrong has a larger than average lung capacity and his heart is physically bigger. I am sure that he has succumbed to doping. Thank goodness we are different, we should stop trying to achieve images promoted by the media. So, No, I don't believe in using powder protein combined with gym workout
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11.08.2010, 09:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Health Concerns of High-Protein Diets
Several specific health concerns are associated with a diet that places such a heavy emphasis on the consumption of protein and the restriction of carbohydrate. Consuming too much protein places extra stress on the liver and kidneys because they have to metabolize and excrete more than normal amounts of waste products. Kidney stones can be caused or aggravated by the high uric acid levels created by high-protein foods. And for those who have diabetes or kidney disease, high-protein diets may speed the progression of kidney disease, even if the diet is followed for a short time. Furthermore, some studies suggest that eating too much protein causes excessive calcium loss, which can contribute to osteoporosis.


Restricting carbohydrate intake is unhealthy as well. Drastically reducing carbohydrate consumption increases the metabolism of fatty acids and causes ketosis. This condition results when excessive amounts of acidic substances known as ketone bodies are released into the bloodstream. Ketosis can be dangerous for people with known or unrecognized heart disease, diabetes, or kidney problems. In addition, restricting carbohydrates can lead to vitamin and mineral deficiencies.


Healthful, carbohydrate-rich foods, such as whole grains, fruits, and vegetables, provide essential nutrients as well as fiber and phytochemicals that work together to help prevent disease and promote good health. In fact, one of the basic underlying problems with most high-protein diets is their failure to promote a balanced diet and to teach long-term healthful eating habits.

It's from Johns Hopkins University dude, the best medical University in the world, it is from a white paper and it will have references in the original this is an excerpt. Medical advice should come from medical institutions, call me old fashioned...

This is pseudoscience vs science man, you ask me for verification and provide nothing but rubbish in return, where is your evidence that super-protein loading helps performance? And you have the audacity to pick holes in JHU’s research techniques…
still no links. still no study. still what you just pulled off a website that is their view.

I dont give a toss about protein powder in fact. Im not even looking to take any protein supplements. But this thread started with people giving helpful advice to someone asked about it and you weighed on in with cynical replies without backing yourself up in any way whatsoever.

Im actually a university athlete, I won full colours for Men’s lacrosse, and also represented my country. Or so Im saying. I think whey protein shakes are good for you. as for that junk above ? I advise people that they may as well get their advice from superman.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11.08.2010, 09:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,719
Groaned at 1,283 Times in 858 Posts
Thanked 20,187 Times in 7,778 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Well if you're so interested to know about me personally, I was a university athlete, I won full colours for Men’s lacrosse, and also represented my country, I was also a county rower, although that is by the by. .
What real relevance has that got to do with protein and bodybuilding. I was a school athelete too... I never touched protein shakes. I would only personally use them for workouts involving freeweights, which was the initial subject of the thread before you dragged it somewhere to the left.

The amusing thing is I bet you haven't even touched the links I provided earlier in the thread, there is some science there, including two doctors debating the issue.

Last edited by Chuff; 11.08.2010 at 10:46.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11.08.2010, 10:23
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Schaffhausen
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Markyd has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

A lot of the results that you may be looking for need to be combined with a diet plan. It doesn't need to be one of these silly ones where you need to have 3 egg whites at 06:47 only when the wind is blowing from the South East and every second day, with 2 sips of lemon water.

Keep it simple:
Cut down on carbohydrates (bread & pasta), as well as chocolate, sweets and sugar drinks. Reduce the sauces that you have with meals. Drink a LOT more water. Increase your proteins chicken, egg whites (especially when you workout) and increase your raw vegetable intake. Combine that with a good workout plan and if you choose - protein shake, and you will notice a visible difference after 2 weeks. If you have any health concerns, or just not sure - always seek the advice from a professional (who isn't trying to sell you something).

I worked out for 6 months with very little results. I then changed my diet & reduced the amount of carbs I was taking; started taking whey protein shake (from Garnell Nutrition) and I noticed the difference in 2 weeks. After 2 months, my freinds couldn't believe the change in my physique. I noticed the difference in my strenght, fitness and overall health.

Now I always have a protein shake within 30 minutes of my workout. I still indulge in the occational chocolate bar, ice cream, but not to extremes.

In my opinion, having the right protein shake makes a huge difference, but you can get the same results from just eating healthier. I've always found if you try go too extreme, then it just becomes a fad & fads never last. try make it part of your lifestyle. You'll have much better results.

Hope this helps...
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11.08.2010, 11:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Ok, links:-http://www.ilovepasta.org/diet_matters.html

I am not against free will or you drinking or eating what ever you like, but just don't say it is science, medical opinion is based on a wealth of studies, your opinion is not. If I where you I would trust medical opinion and reject the pseudoscience of the supplement industry, this is medical opinion not my opinion I am only presenting the non bias findings and ideas.

These protein milk shakes are in general pretty harmless when taken as a fad diet as a teenager, all I am saying is that it is not really wise to construct your eating patterns around these powder drinks. Eating 3 times your daily protein intake is ridiculous, a strength athlete needs maybe 5-10% more protein than a sedentary individual, not 300% more!

I suspect that some people would notice a training improvement, (this stuff is mostly sugar), so your on a complete sugar rush all day, thus you train harder, a little harder. your body does synthesis protein better before 20 mins before and after training, but all you need is half a pint of regular skimmed or semi-skimmed milk, this has all the protein you need, and it is good quality protein, not freeze dried condemned cattle packed into an ice-cream tub with a sparkly label on the side.

This is the last thing I'm saying on this matter, it is like banging your head against a brick wall talking to individuals who worship body building. Do what you like.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 11.08.2010, 16:53
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

I have an admission. Yesterday after reading this thread and a great workout at the gym I went in search of the massive plastic jars of creatine and whey protein that someone had left here. I had bought the protein slimfast stuff but never this bodybuilder stuff. I combined both mixed up a shake with skimmed, organic milk and Gee did it taste good! It reminded me of when I was little and would spoon Marvel dried milk straight from the tub, it tasted so, so good, so I started spooning the whey stuff into my mouth until my daghter caught my with a horrified expression. Last night I had bad stomach cramps, not sure if it was the due to my gorging. However in light of this article which points to the hidden dangers in protein shakes I have to hide the stuff away or throw it out. The former owner/ bodybuilder told me to throw it away.

Could Protein Shakes Harm Your Health?



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6537686.shtml
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11.08.2010, 16:57
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 11.08.2010, 16:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,719
Groaned at 1,283 Times in 858 Posts
Thanked 20,187 Times in 7,778 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
I have an admission. Yesterday after reading this thread and a great workout at the gym I went in search of the massive plastic jars of creatine and whey protein that someone had left here. I had bought the protein slimfast stuff but never this bodybuilder stuff. I combined both mixed up a shake with skimmed, organic milk and Gee did it taste good! It reminded me of when I was little and would spoon Marvel dried milk straight from the tub, it tasted so, so good, so I started spooning the whey stuff into my mouth until my daghter caught my with a horrified expression. Last night I had bad stomach cramps, not sure if it was the due to my gorging. However in light of this article which points to the hidden dangers in protein shakes I have to hide the stuff away or throw it out. The former owner/ bodybuilder told me to throw it away.
I've seen so many threads where you claim to be a near-genius, and yet all I ever see you post are things that make me wonder how you actually function in a normal capacity on a day to day basis.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 11.08.2010, 17:03
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Graubünden
Posts: 636
Groaned at 69 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 255 Posts
Wasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputation
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Surely you cannot get muscle mass like Arni or Stallone unless heavy doses of Protein Shakes and even creatine!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11.08.2010, 17:12
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
I've seen so many threads where you claim to be a near-genius, and yet all I ever see you post are things that make me wonder how you actually function in a normal capacity on a day to day basis.
I am honest and I make myself laugh- but then you should meet the family!

Thanks to this thread I am now craving whey protein and creatine. Quite honestly if you offer me 3 scrambled eggs or a chicken breast or the protein shake- I would take the protein shake and just ignore the fact that it is made from sick cows milk and contains cadmium and arsenic.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11.08.2010, 17:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Surely you cannot get muscle mass like Arni or Stallone unless heavy doses of Protein Shakes and even creatine!
Well ok one last post, OFCOURSE YOU CAN, Arni was winning Mr. universe before this 'protein milk shake' nonsense was even thought up, the 'sports' supplements first came on the market early to mid 1980's. Arni has probably never touched the stuff.

THEY ARE BIG BECAUSE THEY ARE ON STEROIDS.

And train very hard, but yeah it’s the steroids dude, they work, medically proven.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11.08.2010, 17:18
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Graubünden
Posts: 636
Groaned at 69 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 255 Posts
Wasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputation
Re: Is Protein Powder good for work out in gym ?

Quote:
View Post
Well ok one last post, OFCOURSE YOU CAN, Arni was winning Mr. universe before this 'protein milk shake' nonsense was even thought up, the 'sports' supplements first came on the market early to mid 1980's. Arni has probably never touched the stuff.

THEY ARE BIG BECAUSE THEY ARE ON STEROIDS.

And train very hard, but yeah it’s the steroids dude, they work, medically proven.
Are you trying to say STEROIDS are better than Protein shakes?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone knows a good fitness gym in Basel? PeterO Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 7 30.06.2013 12:00
Know a good gym in Hottingen? virtuallyswiss Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 0 04.12.2009 17:56
Free Gym Membership (Work on a farm for the day) Natasha Social events 89 18.08.2008 10:48
[Maennedorf, Meilen, nearby] looking for a good gym Oz1970 Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 1 29.08.2007 17:39


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0