Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss news via The Local  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31.05.2012, 11:38
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,170
Groaned at 115 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 52 Posts
The Local The Local The Local The Local The Local The Local
The Swiss parliament's upper house, the Council of States, wants to implement laws to ensure foreign workers receive the minimum wage and do not fall victim to 'wage dumping'.

Read the full article: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners
This user would like to thank The Local for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 31.05.2012, 12:52
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,320
Groaned at 278 Times in 184 Posts
Thanked 17,735 Times in 7,488 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

can somebody explain this to me. if there is a minimum wage in winterthur, why do foreign workers who work there not have to receive this 'minimum wage'?
  #3  
Old 31.05.2012, 13:04
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,783
Groaned at 360 Times in 247 Posts
Thanked 19,293 Times in 10,071 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

There are people who get half the minimum wage.

Degree recognition. Years of experiences that only count under certain conditions, etc.
  #4  
Old 31.05.2012, 13:25
mojado's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 814
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 798 Times in 356 Posts
mojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Meanwhile Germany is going the opposite way.
  #5  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:20
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,807
Groaned at 104 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 4,964 Times in 2,359 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
View Post
can somebody explain this to me. if there is a minimum wage in winterthur, why do foreign workers who work there not have to receive this 'minimum wage'?
For sake of discussion, what is your profession or more vague, your field of profession?
  #6  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:21
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,807
Groaned at 104 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 4,964 Times in 2,359 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
View Post
Meanwhile Germany is going the opposite way.
link does not work
  #7  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:23
mojado's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 814
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 798 Times in 356 Posts
mojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond reputemojado has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
View Post
link does not work
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15915424,00.html
  #8  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:42
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

There are no legal minimum wages. There are agreed wage levels for certain jobs, in national agreements between unions and employer associations.

BUT a contract for a job gets passed about and for example a foreigner arrives here to demolish the Post Finance building in Bern and is paid €5 per hour, but the Post is paying a Swiss contractor nearer CHF 30 per hour. The worker's manager then claims he has a contract signed in Poland and does not come under the national agreement.

Swiss Post Finance, and other decent companies, do not want to be ripped off and tarred with the slave manager brush, while the fat cats profit on the backs of imported slaves.
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:46
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,040
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Switzerland to not exploit foreign workers? Who built the bridges, the tunnels, the freeways, the bunkers then? This great nation didn't get where it is today with predominantly Swiss folk getting their hands dirty when it had to be done. Paying low wages to hard up foreign laborers was the backbone of this country's economic success story. And don't you forget they didn't moan about it then. So don't come whining on EF how Hansueli across the office is earning more than you and does no work, that ethical horse has been flogged to death decades ago.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
  #10  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Are you really saying that because slaves were used in the past (and definitely not only in Switzerland) it is OK to continue to do so now?
Paying under CHF20 is really not acceptable, and paying under 10CHF is slavery and shameful. Punkt Schluss. These loopholes have to be closed asap.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:52
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,807
Groaned at 104 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 4,964 Times in 2,359 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Oh ok. Since someone built a bridge 40 years ago, with money that was worth more in say Italy, today, I shouldn' expect enough to survive here?

Plus, what they are trying to do isn't really in favor of foreign workers, it's to protect their own.
  #12  
Old 31.05.2012, 17:54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Birmensdorf ZH, ex-Lausanne
Posts: 415
Groaned at 15 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 182 Posts
NicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

This is another example of a proposition that makes for good press but which already has safeguards in the current legislation. For non EU workers, your work permit is usually not approved if the salary offered by your employer is ridiculously low. So yeah, they might be sort of on the low end of the scale, but making 1k a month can't really happen if everything is above board.

The only people this could help are EU citizens- who have the freedom of movement to pick and choose so aren't overly affected past their first job (my husband's (EU) first job smacked of non-Swiss wage dumping, he took it to get his foot in the door then promptly got something that paid the market rate) or trailing spouses, but they already have a second income and can also do the foot-in-the-door route as their permits are tied to the main income.

JMO of course, and if someone was getting 8 francs an hour, that is because something else in the system wasnt above board with the employer or the permits. Those are the parts of the law we need to enforce (company HR reporting etc), not some cosmetic minimum wage thingie.

Last edited by NicoleCZ; 31.05.2012 at 17:56. Reason: incomplete sentence
This user would like to thank NicoleCZ for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 31.05.2012, 18:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

There are ways around that- by 'importing' short-term workers on L permits, for a max of 6 months, feed and water them and give them basic free accommodation. Some get away with paying an awful lot LESS than even the 8CHF. Loopholes need to be closed- to protect those workers, and yes, to protect Swiss workers who cannot possibly compete. We all know that it is impossible to live a normal life here in CH on such a wage.

Last edited by Odile; 31.05.2012 at 19:15.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 31.05.2012, 18:47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 299
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
There are ways around that- by 'importing' short-term workers on L permits, for a max of 6 months, feed and water them and give them basic free accommodation. Some get away with paying an awful lot more than even the 8CHF. Loopholes need to be closed- to protect those workers, and yes, to protect Swiss workers who cannot possibly compete. We all know that it is impossible to live a normal life here in CH on such a wage.
Well said
I would add another reason, probably even more important: if such loopholes are not closed immediately (and the national council's right-wing said no) then a majority of the Swiss will reject further bilateral agreements with the EU (including me, this time it is NO/NEIN/NON/NO !!!!). Even the left might reject them.

Then we all lose out but this is another story
  #15  
Old 31.05.2012, 21:05
Amaras's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Armenia
Posts: 130
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Amaras has earned some respectAmaras has earned some respect
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
Are you really saying that because slaves were used in the past (and definitely not only in Switzerland) it is OK to continue to do so now?
Paying under CHF20 is really not acceptable, and paying under 10CHF is slavery and shameful. Punkt Schluss. These loopholes have to be closed asap.
Do you know an average wage in Bangladesh garment industry ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14971258
There is always loopholes..and new ones are coming.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/bu...pagewanted=all

Last edited by Amaras; 31.05.2012 at 22:12.
  #16  
Old 31.05.2012, 21:36
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,423
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,958 Times in 11,065 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
There are ways around that- by 'importing' short-term workers on L permits, for a max of 6 months, feed and water them and give them basic free accommodation. Some get away with paying an awful lot LESS than even the 8CHF. Loopholes need to be closed- to protect those workers, and yes, to protect Swiss workers who cannot possibly compete. We all know that it is impossible to live a normal life here in CH on such a wage.
For upto 90 days original EU don't even need a permit, just register by day 8 or for some trades before they start to work.
  #17  
Old 31.05.2012, 22:39
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,807
Groaned at 104 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 4,964 Times in 2,359 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
View Post
Do you know an average wage in Bangladesh garment industry ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14971258
There is always loopholes..and new ones are coming.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/bu...pagewanted=all
I think they meant that it was slave labor as it relates to living in Switzerland. Not as it relates to Bangladesh. Life is probably harder there, but the cost of living compared to what is made, is not possible to exist at 10 CHF an hour, except of course if one can make 10 CHF an hour and get teleported within a half an hour back to Bangladesh. Then it would be relevent.
  #18  
Old 31.05.2012, 22:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

But if workers from, say, Bangladesh, are brought here on short-term contract, fed, lodged and watered (in very simple basic accommodation), still paid their salary back home PLUS another small (in Swiss terms) sum that they can put aside over the 6 months- than those workers can go back and the money earned here will make a big difference for their family when they return. They have no contact with the outside world, don't go out apart from a quick walk around the factory- so don't 'need' money here - all is saved for return.

Which is why they accept EXTREMELY low (in Swiss terms) salaries (in one case about 1.50 CHF per hour apparently). The point of the article is that this should no longer be acceptable and that a minimum should be enforced by law.

Last edited by Odile; 31.05.2012 at 23:05.
  #19  
Old 31.05.2012, 22:58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 299
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
But if workers from, say, Bangladesh, are brought here on short-term contract, fed, lodged and watered (in very simple basic accommodation), still paid their salary back home PLUS another small (in Swiss terms) sum that they can put aside over the 6 months- than those workers can go back and the money earned here will make a big difference for their family when they return. They have no contact with the outside world, don't go out apart from a quick walk around the factory- so don't 'need' money here - all is saved for return.

Which is why they accept EXTREMELY low (in Swiss terms) salaries.
Yes but this is legal here as there is no minimum wage
This user would like to thank UktoSwiss for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 01.06.2012, 05:41
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,707 Times in 2,237 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss mull minimum wage law for foreigners

Quote:
View Post
Yes but this is legal here as there is no minimum wage
Which is the whole point of the thread.
The following 2 users would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0