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  #61  
Old 07.12.2010, 14:44
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I'm not one of the many, I realise Sächsisch or Fränkisch are definitely very special dialects. I think one of the main differences is that the Swiss are taught to switch to High German if need be, albeit with an accent that makes you sound a bit deranged. There was this thing on TV a few weeks back about how people from Sachsen were taking elocution lessons to learn to speak "Standard German" and they were REALLY struggling.

The teacher explained that certain dialects have a sort of social stigma attached to them, which reminded me of what my mother told me about how she had to go to elocution lessons to get rid of her pit-yacker way of speaking in order to be allowed to work in one of the nicer department stores.

There is no such thing as placing a person in a certain social class based on their dialect here, with the VERY rare exception of a very special kind of Zürich Deutsch that has only survived in the oldest families of Zurich and is effectively dying out. It was only brought to my attention by someone who is "one of them". That person also never, ever uses foul language. It's quite weird, like having a British aristocrat of the old school talking in Swiss German.
I have been to "Cindy's Diner" two weeks ago and the entire staff was Eastern German, Saxon to be precise. When I ordered a cole slaw salad, they brought a corn cob (the menu is in English). I tried to explain the mistake and after three attempts of saying "cole slaw" in the most saxon way I can think of, I said "it is a salad made of cabbage, it's in the menu"... I could overhear the team practicing to pronounce "cole slaw" for five minutes...

göhl slow
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  #62  
Old 07.12.2010, 14:58
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Texan English is not a distinct dialect.

The distance between Texan and, for example, Southern British English is not as great as the distance between most German dialects.

This of course is "technically" true ! But not exactly by the sound of it
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  #63  
Old 07.12.2010, 15:01
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Texan English is not a distinct dialect.

The distance between Texan and, for example, Southern British English is not as great as the distance between most German dialects.
Been to Texas much? I disagree very much with your statement. 8 years in the Lone Star State have taught me a lot. Heck, get an East Texan and someone from the panhandle to talk and they need an interpreter.
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Old 07.12.2010, 15:02
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Sorry Wolli, not quite correct. Bayerisch (= Bavarian) and Tirolerisch (= Tyrolian) are not Alemannic dialects. They belong to the Bairisch (= Austro-Bavarian) regiolect, which is the other main group within the Upper German family, besides Alemannic including Swiss German.
True indeed ! But then, just to be complete, the dialect of the Alsace, even if plastered with French words, is the third Alemannic dialect (group of dialects), with Württembergisch (Schtuttgarterisch) the fourth . While Baaslerisch of course is a kind of "Südbadische Mundart"
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Old 07.12.2010, 15:03
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

BTW Southern British Accent is a bit vague, lol. Local Oxford accent is actually VERY different to what most people consider to be 'Oxford /OXbridge' or 'best'. There are many 'non standard' Southern UK accents'.
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  #66  
Old 07.12.2010, 15:17
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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True indeed ! But then, just to be complete, the dialect of the Alsace, even if plastered with French words, is the third Alemannic dialect (group of dialects), with Württembergisch (Schtuttgarterisch) the fourth . While Baaslerisch of course is a kind of "Südbadische Mundart"
Hey! And what about my beloved Swabian? In the Augsburger Western forest version.
Deepest Schwäbisch-kongo, a Etymologicanthropologists nightmare.

There you go a long word.
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  #67  
Old 07.12.2010, 15:20
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Well, I do think that Swiss German is inferior to High German as there is no official way to write it and thus it fails on a cultural level because of its lack of literature.
You've not been to Basel Fasnacht have you?
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  #68  
Old 07.12.2010, 15:46
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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There you go a long word.
And a Google bomb!
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  #69  
Old 07.12.2010, 15:47
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Typical "Gummihals" attitude...
For the record: Most stereotypes have a lot of truth in it. Prussians are loud and can talk for example. But I never got the "Gummihals" thing at all. Gummihals means that Swiss think that Germans always nod and agree to the leader no matter how bad the managers ideas are. In my experience is it actually in more than 90% the German colleague (no, not only me) who has the balls to call a spade a spade while the Swiss colleagues always wait till somebody opened the discussion for them before they agree... I wonder if this is only my experience and if others made the same or different experiences.
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Old 07.12.2010, 15:53
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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And a Google bomb!
Think I should get it copyrighted?
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  #71  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:31
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Been to Texas much? I disagree very much with your statement. 8 years in the Lone Star State have taught me a lot. Heck, get an East Texan and someone from the panhandle to talk and they need an interpreter.
You are talking about the blue collar folks...
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  #72  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:44
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

Living near the French border, in an area which clearly voted for the initiative - and in view of Perrin's comments that his native area (mine too) voted for, because people here are exposed to more 'frontaliers' (French people who cross over every day to work here)- how about this question:

how do native French (or Italians in Tessin) feel about SVP (UDC in Romandie).

Also remembering last year's scandal re. posters at the Geneva border about 'la racaille' (a rude version of riff-raff- re French workers working in CH).
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  #73  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:49
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Been to Texas much? I disagree very much with your statement. 8 years in the Lone Star State have taught me a lot. Heck, get an East Texan and someone from the panhandle to talk and they need an interpreter.
Yeah . . . I've been to Texas quite a lot. Always around Austin though.

BTW . . . I looked this up after I posted and apparently Texan is a subdialect of Southern American English. So, maybe I'm wrong.

I'd still bet a pint that there's more difference between various kinds of German than between the most broad Texas English and any (roughly Southern England) English.
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  #74  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:53
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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BTW Southern British Accent is a bit vague, lol. Local Oxford accent is actually VERY different to what most people consider to be 'Oxford /OXbridge' or 'best'. There are many 'non standard' Southern UK accents'.
Yes, but they're all entirely mutually understandable and without Northern vowel sounds.

I just meant that most Texans could understand those people with no problem and those speakers could understand most Texans. It's not necessarily true that most Hoch Deutsch speakers could understand any Swiss Mundart. And that's why you have Swiss German class for (other) German speakers, but you don't get Texan English classes for (other) English speakers.
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  #75  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:56
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

Most Surrey born (like my OH) still find it very difficult to understand a strong Brommie or Geordie, let alone a Glaswegian! When we moved to Stoke, I had to translate for him, lol.
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  #76  
Old 07.12.2010, 16:58
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Living near the French border, in an area which clearly voted for the initiative - and in view of Perrin's comments that his native area (mine too) voted for, because people here are exposed to more 'frontaliers' (French people who cross over every day to work here)- how about this question:

how do native French (or Italians in Tessin) feel about SVP (UDC in Romandie).

Also remembering last year's scandal re. posters at the Geneva border about 'la racaille' (a rude version of riff-raff- re French workers working in CH).
I was at a client just yesterday and in the (watchmaking) workshop there were 4 French and 1 Swiss. One of the French lives in Switzerland, the others are frontaliers. This is a typical proportion in this industry from my experience. And in 3 hours there, there were at least half a dozen remarks of "watch out- they're (UDC) gonna ship you out!". Tongue in cheek of course. The UDC is seen as buffoons and not a threat. The 50ish year old Swiss was right in the thick of the comments, no animosity in the group at all.
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Old 07.12.2010, 17:01
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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For the record: Most stereotypes have a lot of truth in it. Prussians are loud and can talk for example. But I never got the "Gummihals" thing at all.
The Gummihals thing mainly comes from the medical field as far as I know. It's definitely not fitting elsewhere, you are right. But I do notice a stronger sense of hierarchy from my German co-workers than, for instance, my British ones. If I criticise / contradict something, the first thing I get in reply is "excuse me, you're so-and-so's assistant, right?" or something similar and my idea is dismissed outright. And the aforementioned German who worked in our team actually felt it was inappropriate for the assistants to be on first name terms with him.
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Old 07.12.2010, 17:12
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I was at a client just yesterday and in the (watchmaking) workshop there were 4 French and 1 Swiss. One of the French lives in Switzerland, the others are frontaliers. This is a typical proportion in this industry from my experience. And in 3 hours there, there were at least half a dozen remarks of "watch out- they're (UDC) gonna ship you out!". Tongue in cheek of course. The UDC is seen as buffoons and not a threat. The 50ish year old Swiss was right in the thick of the comments, no animosity in the group at all.
Many things that are later a threat and initially not seen as one. The possibility of threat is prefigured in the use of humour though.
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Old 07.12.2010, 17:14
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

Mud, great to hear the banter was friendly- and yet here in the watch making hub (Perrin comes from Piaget village), Val-de-Travers, le Locle, the vote was clearly FOR the initiative- the only areas in the Romandie Cantons- and Perrin did make the link between 'frontaliers' (which of course have nothing to do with the intitiative) and the positive (negative!) vote.
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Old 07.12.2010, 17:16
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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The Gummihals thing mainly comes from the medical field as far as I know. It's definitely not fitting elsewhere, you are right. But I do notice a stronger sense of hierarchy from my German co-workers than, for instance, my British ones. If I criticise / contradict something, the first thing I get in reply is "excuse me, you're so-and-so's assistant, right?" or something similar and my idea is dismissed outright. And the aforementioned German who worked in our team actually felt it was inappropriate for the assistants to be on first name terms with him.
Oh, I didn't know that I am only discussing here with somebodies assistant... never mind.
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