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Old 07.12.2010, 02:34
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how do native germans feel about SVP?

Maybe this has been covered before. How do native germans who moved
to CH (native as in white not Turks with German citizenship) feel about
these anti-foreigner campaigns from SVP?

This being englishforum we probably don't have a lot of Germans reading
this. But I'm curious. They can integrate into CH society pretty easily if
they learn Swiss German. Do they view themselves as being the foreigners
targeted? Or do they feel that it's not really about them but about the
"dark skinned" people or the non-german speakers?

DavidSJC
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Old 07.12.2010, 03:24
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Maybe this has been covered before. How do native germans who moved
to CH (native as in white not Turks with German citizenship) feel about
these anti-foreigner campaigns from SVP?

This being englishforum we probably don't have a lot of Germans reading
this. But I'm curious. They can integrate into CH society pretty easily if
they learn Swiss German. Do they view themselves as being the foreigners
targeted? Or do they feel that it's not really about them but about the
"dark skinned" people or the non-german speakers?

DavidSJC

I can't speak for everybody else, of course, but "our" feeling is that it's mostly targeted at people from the Balkan, or Turkey or (black...) Africans.
In fact, there are quite a number of SVP members who are naturalized people from these regions and they are usually the most fervent advocates for these campaigns.

But, as I like to say, the campaign-posters give me a shiver down the spine - they look like they come right out of "der Stürmer"....
http://www.google.com/images?client=...w=1574&bih=975

As for learning swiss-german.... well, few Germans go that route.
Though Swiss people can intonate high-german with perfection, the opposite is not easy.
People from South Germany (like myself) already have their own Swiss-like dialect and like to cultivate it.
People from northern parts of Germany speak Hochdeutsch and usually consider Swiss-German a language-butchery sort of....
One thing is clear, though: if you have kids here, they'll pick-up the local language - wether you like it or not....
;-)
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Old 07.12.2010, 08:52
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

Actually a lot of Germans, at least here in Rheintal are seen as competition by willing to work for lower wages than a standard issue Swiss would. This brings quite a bit of rancor by the Swiss complaining that they too now are forced to work for lower wages, so tensions are quite high.
Especially when you get Germans from the former DDR happy to have a job, any job, for any wage, period.
There are a lot of SVP members around this area and they seem to consider ex-DDRler just above a Jugoslav or even worst a Moslem.
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Old 07.12.2010, 09:23
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Maybe this has been covered before. How do native germans who moved to CH (native as in white not Turks with German citizenship) feel about these anti-foreigner campaigns from SVP?
... Do they view themselves as being the foreigners
targeted? Or do they feel that it's not really about them but about the
"dark skinned" people or the non-german speakers?
I believe these campaigns to be targeted against any and all foreigners, regardless of color or origin. As mentioned in the other thread about the SVP posters with 'Ivan, the rapist' there were also - less prominently - posters depicting 'Detlef, the pedophile' - Detlef being a typical German male first name. I wouldn't be surprised if these were used mainly in the Zurich area.
The SVP keeps also complaining about Germans taking away jobs from the Swiss across all levels - there was a big discussion last year about Germans snatching away too many tenure positions at Swiss universities. This is certainly nothing that directly affects a lot of potential SVP voters, but it was creating a nice uproar amongst the oh so disenfranchised SVP voter pool.

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They can integrate into CH society pretty easily if they learn Swiss German.
Why should I have to integrate into the Swiss society by learning one variety (of many) of a local German dialect, when I speak, read and write one of the official languages way better than the average Swiss German ? As a reminder: The official language is German as in High German, not Swiss German, the latter covering a family of dialects like e.g. Bavarian.
And in case you were tempted to groan - my German is also way above average back home in Germany, thus I am not saying that Swiss Germans are less educated re German...
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Old 07.12.2010, 09:41
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

Purely playing the devil's advocate with you here, but could I counter with: "Does it really matter what native Germans think about the SVP any more than what native Swiss folk think of the CDU...?"

It's not like we're about to get a charity vote to try and influence our neighbor's internal politics.
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Old 07.12.2010, 09:46
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

SVP claims that only they represent the Swiss, as they have 30% of the political market.

But what about the other 70% - the majority ?
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Old 07.12.2010, 09:52
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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SVP claims that only they represent the Swiss, as they have 30% of the political market.

But what about the other 70% - the majority ?
Huh? I'm missing something in your post, like a point?
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:24
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Maybe this has been covered before. How do native germans who moved
to CH (native as in white not Turks with German citizenship) feel about
these anti-foreigner campaigns from SVP?

This being englishforum we probably don't have a lot of Germans reading
this. But I'm curious. They can integrate into CH society pretty easily if
they learn Swiss German. Do they view themselves as being the foreigners
targeted? Or do they feel that it's not really about them but about the
"dark skinned" people or the non-german speakers?

DavidSJC
A) What does "in white not Turks" mean ?
B) "The foreigners targetted" are not coloureds but "ex-Yugos" !
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:36
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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A) What does "in white not Turks" mean ?
I was wondering the same thing.

A Turk born in Germany WITH a passport makes him a real German as much as any others.
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:39
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I was wondering the same thing.

A Turk born in Germany WITH a passport makes him a real German as much as any others.
Go Mesut Özil!
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:41
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I was wondering the same thing.

A Turk born in Germany WITH a passport makes him a real German as much as any others.
I too was wondering how being 'White German' makes you a 'native'... My brother is a German and passport holder and is not 'White'.. but very much German... that kind of thinking is very backward...
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:43
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I too was wondering how being 'White German' makes you a 'native'... My brother is a German and passport holder and is not 'White'.. but very much German... that kind of thinking is very backward...
Thank you, I thought I was the only one thinking that!
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:44
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Go Mesut Özil!
German teams wouldn't be as strong without their Turks!
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:53
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Why should I have to integrate into the Swiss society by learning one variety (of many) of a local German dialect, when I speak, read and write one of the official languages way better than the average Swiss German ? As a reminder: The official language is German as in High German, not Swiss German, the latter covering a family of dialects like e.g. Bavarian.
And in case you were tempted to groan - my German is also way above average back home in Germany, thus I am not saying that Swiss Germans are less educated re German...
A fine example of why Germans are generally not liked by the Swiss....
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:54
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

It seems the poster is not the only one who thinks that to be a German you need to be 'White'.. My brother that I mentioned went to look at an apartment in Zurich and told the guy beforehand that he was German, etc. He also has a very German name. He waited outside the apartment for half an hour and assumed the guy was late. He saw this guy pacing up and down outside the apartment so decided to ask him if he was the guy for the apartment..

The guy said yes and was shocked to find out that my brother was the German he was supposed to be meeting.. He said ' You don't look like a German, so even though i saw you standing there I did'nt think to ask you.' My brother asked him what a German looks like and he had no answer..
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:55
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I too was wondering how being 'White German' makes you a 'native'... My brother is a German and passport holder and is not 'White'.. but very much German... that kind of thinking is very backward...
It's the old "ius sanguis" thing, I guess.
It did have some merit - but not in a world where goods and people can roam (almost) freely between national borders.
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:56
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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It's the old "ius sanguis" thing, I guess.
It did have some merit - but not in a world where goods and people can roam (almost) freely between national borders.
I understand that, but surely if you are born in Germany and have a German passport that makes you German regardless of skin colour?
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Old 07.12.2010, 10:59
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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Why should I have to integrate into the Swiss society by learning one variety (of many) of a local German dialect, when I speak, read and write one of the official languages way better than the average Swiss German...
..ehmm, because you live in their country?!
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Old 07.12.2010, 11:02
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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..ehmm, because you live in their country?!
I agree.. If you live here then you should adapt.. I grew speaking High German but since moving here 8 months ago I have made a conscious effort to learn and speak Swiss German.. I don't think its that hard for German speakers to adapt..
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Old 07.12.2010, 11:02
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Re: how do native germans feel about SVP?

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I too was wondering how being 'White German' makes you a 'native'... My brother is a German and passport holder and is not 'White'.. but very much German... that kind of thinking is very backward...
Yes, go tell that to a right-wing skinhead in Germany. No doubt they will apologize for having mistaken you for a 'bloody Ausländer' straight away.
I believe the point was that non-ethnic Germans would feel threatened about the xenophobic campaigns anyway, whereas the OP was interested in learning about the attitude amongst ethnic Germans (not trying to make any point about the one group being better or superior to the other).

Last edited by xkcd; 07.12.2010 at 11:03. Reason: typo
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