Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Switzerland and joining the EU

O.K. folks,

Could someone here please clarify, why Switzerland is adamant on not joining the EU?

Given that Switzerland already behaves pretty much like it were a part of the EU, given that free trade among EU member nations would most likely reduce the price of goods for the average consumer in Switzerland (by eliminating our having to pay all those hefty import fees, for instance), given that free labor migration would have the same effects (lowering the price on consumables) as well, I honestly cannot see that the detriments (if any, and please feel free to outline those), would ever outweigh the benefits.

Anyone care to comment? Regardless of what your view on the issue is, can someone please explain what the "swiss average person" view on the issue is? Why do these referendums always get defeated? Are the people being misled on how they could benefit? Are they misinformed? Are they to lazy to go out and vote? Are they being mis-guidedly patriotic? Or are there any real issues of substance that would bolster the "con" side of the debate?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:39
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 176
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
thoean has no particular reputation at present
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Could someone here please clarify, why Switzerland is adamant on not joining the EU?
Simply spoken, CH is too rich and would pay too much to join the EU (it pays already a lot for all the other agreements...).

Longer answer:
- Currently, EU has something against tax system in CH (EU thinks, it is unfair that CH has cheaper taxes... but on the other hand, EU does not have an equal tax system by themself [strange things going on, maybe I missed the point from this deal going on here]).
- CH has quite another political system compared to other EU countries.
- CH has a large amount of world-leading companies. I cannot think of another country that has that many compared to the size of the country.
- CH is neutral (other countries such as Austria pretend to be the same, but not in such a deep believe)! If you join the EU, you are not anymore neutral (my opinion).
- Freedom for some decisions would go away.
- "Brussels huge and slow government" does not really match CH-mentality.
- And (the real question): What would CH really gain from joining the EU?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:40
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,142
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,048 Times in 1,189 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
O.K. folks,

Could someone here please clarify, why Switzerland is adamant on not joining the EU?
They think they're better off without the EU. The economic development seems to point into this direction, as well. However, I see a few major problems heading our way, if the Swiss don't change their opinion:

1. If the Swiss Franc continues to lose ground against the Euro, the Swiss will lose their buying power. Goods inside and outside of Switzerland will become more and more expensive and traveling in Europe will become unaffordable

2. Also connected to 1: Swiss real-estate will be sold to foreigners from EU-countries at increasing rates.

3. The selection in Swiss stores will continue to shrink and an increasing number of international consumer product companies will pull out of Switzerland because the market is too small and not worth the (additional) effort anymore. This process has been ongoing for a while put the pace could increase.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:51
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,142
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,048 Times in 1,189 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

> - CH has quite another political system compared to other EU countries.

There aren't any two EU member states that have the exact same political system. That surely isn't a problem

> - CH has a large amount of world-leading companies. I cannot think of
> another country that has that many compared to the size of the country.

? no idea what you're talking about. All major companies represented in Switzerland are also represented in most (if not all) other Western European countries. Why exactly would that keep Switzerland from joining?

> - CH is neutral (other countries such as Austria pretend to be the same, > but not in such a deep believe)! If you join the EU, you are not anymore > neutral (my opinion).

again - I don't see in what way the status of Austria has changed since they joined the EU.

>- Freedom for some decisions would go away.

The Swiss legislature's main task nowadays is to adopt each and every new EU regulation. So we now have most of the EU regulations and rules but we don't have any say in the EU legislative process - not a good thing, if you ask me.

>- "Brussels huge and slow government" does not really match
> CH-mentality.

Oh ok - I'm just glad that our decision making processes are stream-lined and fast. That's why married couples still have to pay higher taxes although the Supreme Court has ruled this to be unconstitutional some 3 decades ago. Paid maternity leave took about 50 years to arrive after it had been decided it should be introduced. A decision on the legalization of cannabis has been postponed indefinitely because the government couldn't reach a conclusion. We've been waiting for the opening of the telecom market for some 10 years now. Each AHV and IV reform takes anywhere between 5 and 20 years. Politicians are still arguing on whether pit-bull terriers are a good thing and whether smokers should be protected more than non-smokers. Initiatives sometimes take 6-10 years until people can vote on them etc. etc.

Our political system is extremely slow and bloated and is unbalanced because of the over-representation of small cantons with small populations forever written in stone by the Ständemehr. Don't see much difference there.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dawiz for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:53
möpp's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,201
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,079 Times in 547 Posts
möpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Well, it's a debate that's been going on for years and years. Whilst about 8 - 10 years ago a large portion (unfortunately not a majority) of voters would probably have agreed to joining the EU, the antics and tactics of "Europe" in the meantime - as observed by the Swiss media and as used by the SVP (Blocher-party) - have probably been quite detrimental to swinging a pro-vote. Since the new eastern European countries have joined I can well imagine that most Swiss are now quite happy that we aren't members (discussion about and potential problems with migration, subsidies etc. etc.).
Back in the 90's the most commonly heard arguments against joining were: we don't want to be dictated to by Brussels, Switzerland would lose its neutrality, I even once heard "I wouldn't feel SWISS anymore....". It probably all boiled (and still boils) down to an undefinable and vague fear of Big Brother telling us how the country should be run, Angst about laws, rules and regulations on which we could be overruled if we are in opposition. There's a saying in Switzerland about "fremde Vögte" - meaning outside powers dictating the way the Swiss should be. Also, the spirit of the mythical William Tell is still quite alive and kicking in most rural areas - the glorified idea of one man fighting alone against overpowering odds for independence. The idea of the EU incorporates all of those misty and vague - and, for the most part totally misplaced - anxieties. That's why IMHO a vote on the EU today would never ever have a realistic chance of succeeding. In 10 years MAYBE, today never!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank möpp for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Theoan,

Thanks for your reply. They do seem to represent what an average swiss person might think.

However, I do not understand the basis for some of these claims. Would you care to please explain? Take a look below:

Quote:
View Post
Simply spoken, CH is too rich and would pay too much to join the EU (it pays already a lot for all the other agreements...).

Pay too much in what way? That is the crux of my question. What are the costs here?

Quote:
View Post
Longer answer:
- Currently, EU has something against tax system in CH (EU thinks, it is unfair that CH has cheaper taxes... but on the other hand, EU does not have an equal tax system by themself [strange things going on, maybe I missed the point from this deal going on here]).
Does joining the EU mean that your tax system has to be the same as everyone elses? As far as I recall Italy's tax system is still different from Germany's, which is different from Spain's which is different from the UK. Why is this an issue?

Quote:
View Post
- CH has quite another political system compared to other EU countries.
Again, so? Doesn't each country get to decide how to run its political system, so long as it is minimally democratic and meets some standards of "non-corruptionness"? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

Quote:
View Post
- CH has a large amount of world-leading companies. I cannot think of another country that has that many compared to the size of the country.
And this is relevant, again, in what way?


Quote:
View Post
- CH is neutral (other countries such as Austria pretend to be the same, but not in such a deep believe)! If you join the EU, you are not anymore neutral (my opinion).
How so? Does joining the EU mean you now have to go to war? How is joining the EU make you "less neutral" than joining the UN would? The Swiss already joined the UN....

Quote:
View Post
- Freedom for some decisions would go away.
Which ones, and are these important? Please clarify, this is too vague for me to gain a grasp as to what is at stake here....

Quote:
View Post
- "Brussels huge and slow government" does not really match CH-mentality.
Are you implying that Swiss government is somehow "faster" than other European countries' ones? Really? Is this a subjective perception, or, again, are there some facts to back this claim?

Quote:
View Post
- And (the real question): What would CH really gain from joining the EU?
Well, as I outlined above, without much prior information on Switzerland (I have been here only 4 months), but for starters:
1. Free trade regions will give access to more competition in the market. More competition brings better prices for the average consumer. With more competition, you, me, and every Swiss resident will be able to save some money on the next trip to the supermarket.

2. Free trade regions will lower prices on consumeables because import tariffs and restrictions will be done away with.

3. Free movement of labor ensures people can easily go where labor is available and the easy availability and supply of workers will tend to lower the price on the production on goods, thus lowering the price of consumeables.

I think these are great benefits. Could you please clarify how those detriments you mentioned are really detrimental, and if so, could you clarify how you conclude that they will really occur?

I appreciate your taking the time to address those points. Learning lots here. If so many people are against the EU there must be some point I am missing, some obvious detriment I can't quite put a finger on. With your help I am trying to discover what that is....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19.07.2007, 14:58
chemgoddess's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, USA
Posts: 1,347
Groaned at 41 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 459 Posts
chemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputation
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Another reason is the same reason why Norway won't join. Two very rich countries with very small populations. Would therefore have to give a ton of money but wouldn't have as much say as the more densely populated countries.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank chemgoddess for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:07
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

I would argue that the Franc falling against the Euro is a short-term consideration and unlikely to be a part of the Swiss thinking on the issue. After all, the CHF is still doing well against the dollar, and the fall against the Euro may just last for a few years.

Many Swiss believe that joining the EU would undermine their democracy. Keep in mind that Swiss view their system of government as a direct democracy where the voters have the final say in pretty much everything.

For myself, I'm not sure I see what benefits joining the EU would have for this country. Given that the economy is mostly based on professional services, cheap labor isn't really an issue. Neither are cheap prices, as Swiss simply aren't as price conscious as consumers in other countries.

So... without a compelling hook, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:14
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Does joining the EU mean that your tax system has to be the same as everyone elses? As far as I recall Italy's tax system is still different from Germany's, which is different from Spain's which is different from the UK. Why is this an issue?
No government that I can think of has been told that they have to adjust their tax system to join the EU. However, the EU has repeatedly expressed dissatisfaction with the Swiss tax rates, as wealthy individuals do tend to move into Switzerland and out of the EU countries.

You can read an admittedly biased view on that here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Given that the economy is mostly based on professional services, cheap labor isn't really an issue. Neither are cheap prices, as Swiss simply aren't as price conscious as consumers in other countries.
Well, cheap labor doesn't mean "unskilled labor". All it means it is "cheaper relative to what you would have otherwise". You could well have lots of very highly skilled mathematician types popping in from Poland or Hungary or something and providing these "professional services" (oops that sounded not how I intended but nevermind my mind in the gutter). Additionally, I thought that a good sector of Swiss economy was based on skilled manufacture (craftsman-type assembly of precision industrial parts, for instance), which currently commands a high price, not to mention unskilled labor such as agriculture, etc as well. These all directly affect the price of consumables.

Why should a swiss consumer not be price conscious? The only reason they are not is because here there is de facto very little competition. When all the goods are at the same (high) price, it follows the consumer will have to buy at that price. If a competitor introduces the same quality of product at a lower price, I would be surprised if even a Swiss would still prefer to buy the more expensive one, as that would be irrationality in its classic form.

But I don't know the Swiss psyche. I assume that they're just as normal as most people. But your claim that they are not (and by extension could not be in the future) price conscious just throws a spanner into my conjecture....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:20
chemgoddess's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, USA
Posts: 1,347
Groaned at 41 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 459 Posts
chemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputationchemgoddess has an excellent reputation
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Basically, I think the question should be why should Switzerland join the EU? What sort of benefits will they obtain?

But yeah, when people say it would cost too much, the EU takes a certain amount of money (not sure what based on exactly) but relative to how much the country has. Switzerland has a lot, they don't have a lot of people. What would the Swiss gain by giving a bunch of money to the EU? Things are good here. It's not like some of the poorer Eastern European countries.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:21
thekelves's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 47
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
thekelves has become a little unpopular
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

I think the people that oppose the most to Switzerland joining the EU are the people in the banking business..ie..your UBS, Credit suisse because they will have to report about people with illegal money/accounts. I really don't see any other reason why would anyone appose to this transition.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank thekelves for this useful post:
This user groans at thekelves for this post:
  #13  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:23
WorldTraveller's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Aarau
Posts: 511
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 151 Times in 101 Posts
WorldTraveller has earned some respectWorldTraveller has earned some respect
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Well, maybe it's just my imagination but I think the Swiss, more than anyone else, would like to determine their future the way they've always done - direct democracy. Joining the EU would mean regulations and other directives sneaking into the Swiss system that the Swiss really won't have much of a say about because Switzerland is too small in the grand scheme of the EU.

If I were Swiss (which I'm not), I wouldn't joint either but instead do what they've done - ie. bilateral agreements. This way, the Swiss can pick and choose how they interact with their very large neighbours with the option to go about face if it doesn't turn out to suite the Swiss.

Frankly, I think it's smart that the Swiss aren't joining the EU but still engage with it via bilateral agreements and other such mechanisms. Swiss are also striking direct deals with other large trading partners i.e. US, China etc which they could use to counteract the weight of the EU.

Also, Switzerland controls the Alpine tunnels so that's a little bit of leverage against the big man of Europe - Germany.

Last edited by WorldTraveller; 19.07.2007 at 16:51.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank WorldTraveller for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:27
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Very true that "cheap" labor doesn't mean "unskilled" labor. I did interpret that statement as being low-wage manual jobs, but you're right, you could have highly skilled university grads coming here to work for cheap.

Of course, the Swiss wouldn't like that either, because it would put Swiss people out of work or force them to work for lower wages. In fact, current Swiss laws require foreigners to be paid at rates comparable to what a Swiss person would work for to prevent that sort of wage drop.

Admittedly, I'm working from personal observations and half-remembered classes from last year, but what I've seen is that Swiss are simply willing to pay more for higher quality, or the perception of higher quality. While I don't know anyone on the very bottom of the economic food chain here, the spectrum that I *have* observed seems to operate that way. It tends to be us foreigners that are looking for cheaper cheaper cheaper.

But again, this is not anything approaching fact, just what I believe I've seen.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:28
WorldTraveller's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Aarau
Posts: 511
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 151 Times in 101 Posts
WorldTraveller has earned some respectWorldTraveller has earned some respect
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Oh, for the sake of full disclosure, I'm the type that is distrustful of big brother (but I don't believe in conspiracies though, just big governmental ineptitude) and I don't like my tax money going to far away bureaucracy: I don't mind it going to the local bureaucracy, I can always go down to the office and put up a stink about things if I don't like something. I put personal freedom ahead of guarantees of safely by a big state.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Of course, the Swiss wouldn't like that either, because it would put Swiss people out of work or force them to work for lower wages.

Except that, lower wages, combined with a lower cost of consumables, actually puts you in the exact same place as you were before, losing nothing, and gaining nothing.

On the other hand, the cheap labor that moved here to drop the cost of your consumables, benefitted from their increased wages relative to what they were in the countries where they came from.

So you actually benefit a group of people (the immigrants), without harming the local group of people (the swiss workers)....

Admittedly, a tough argument to sell to the average voter. It requires a few more thought steps than what could be covered in your quick 30 second political campaign spot....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
I put personal freedom ahead of guarantees of safely by a big state.

Well, then surely market freedom would be viewed favorably by you as well?

Another reason to join the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:38
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,328
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Except that, lower wages, combined with a lower cost of consumables, actually puts you in the exact same place as you were before, losing nothing, and gaining nothing.
Not quite true. This situation decreases your buying power abroad. So all of a sudden you can buy less, say, American goods than you could before, because their (err, our) prices haven't changed, while your earning power relative to them (err, us) has gone down.

Further, the lower wages would happen prior to the lower prices. Employers would hire cheap labor and keep the same prices at first in an attempt to increase their profit margins, and not drop prices until market pressures force them to do so. You wind up with a very real short-term pain for the locals, and *that* makes your argument an even more difficult sell.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Corbets for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Quote:
View Post
Not quite true. This situation decreases your buying power abroad. So all of a sudden you can buy less, say, American goods than you could before, because their (err, our) prices haven't changed, while your earning power relative to them (err, us) has gone down.

Further, the lower wages would happen prior to the lower prices. Employers would hire cheap labor and keep the same prices at first in an attempt to increase their profit margins, and not drop prices until market pressures force them to do so. You wind up with a very real short-term pain for the locals, and *that* makes your argument an even more difficult sell.

Agreed.

(and this is just to lenghten the reply because EF won't let me post anything shorter than 10 characters).
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 19.07.2007, 15:41
WorldTraveller's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Aarau
Posts: 511
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 151 Times in 101 Posts
WorldTraveller has earned some respectWorldTraveller has earned some respect
Re: Switzerland and joining the EU

Lower wages and lower cost doesn't not in fact put one in the exact same place but puts you down a peg in the international scheme of things. Switzerland needs to keep one step ahead of all her competitors and high prices and high wages give them the kind of cushion they need to be able to innovate without the constraint of pricing.

I think it would be much harder for Switzerland, being a very small country, to be able to provide the high grade infrastructure and quality of life that they do if their overall living cost and wage packet are low as international input prices in the long run would put a damper on it currency fluctuations not withstanding (currencies move up and down but a very high price/wage Switzerland can much easily absorb it.)

Quote:
View Post
Except that, lower wages, combined with a lower cost of consumables, actually puts you in the exact same place as you were before, losing nothing, and gaining nothing.

On the other hand, the cheap labor that moved here to drop the cost of your consumables, benefitted from their increased wages relative to what they were in the countries where they came from.

So you actually benefit a group of people (the immigrants), without harming the local group of people (the swiss workers)....

Admittedly, a tough argument to sell to the average voter. It requires a few more thought steps than what could be covered in your quick 30 second political campaign spot....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
european union




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Joining a Kindergarten in Zürich EssexBoy Family matters/health 22 28.11.2007 09:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0