Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

I just think there should be an evidence-based approach to policy. Not one based on made up fears.

I don't think you should have to justify 'every post' but certainly in a thread about a contentious political issue you should be prepared to justify your opinions.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Basically right you are of course ! But, and this is the point in the matter, to drop an outdated and ineffective law is not really relaxing anything. Again, there are enough laws around practically prohibiting incest. The traditionalist parties (SVP-CVP-EVP) opposing even the consideration is not real, but clearly electioneering. Another aspect is that we here have the "English Forum" dominated by people who grew up with the "precedents"-dominated British law systems which is quite different from the Napoleonic System, which is dominated by written stuff and in Switzerland is driven to extreme lengths. This system, while originally devised to reduce the lack of system in pre-Napoleonic stuff, very often has become letters-based and lacking of common sense.

And in the case under discussion, the Federal Council had the idea that the law in question was useless. It was just put up as a "matter" for electioneering reasons !

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

I have done my best to justify my beliefs in this thread. If that is not enough to satisfy your concerns then I fear that you may be left feeling disappointed.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

We only spoke about ONE law to be dropped, to be dropped because it is outdated and completely ineffective. And as the Bundesrat made it clear, all procedures launched on this point were dropped in the end due to lack of proof. Nobody speaks about "relaxing incest laws" ....

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

If I may add, marriage (and breeding) between cousins is already legal in CH, what they are talking about now, is to abolish the law which prohibits incest between parents & children and among siblings.

Where I see a problem with this is, that victims feel often joint guilt for incestuous rape and are under pressure of their family not to prosecute their perpetrator.

So if this law will be removed, I worry that a lot of incestuous rape cases can't be taken to court, as there's no legal ground to prosecute...


edit: I'm aware of that at present only a few cases based on this incest law are taken forward in CH courts, but I assume a correlation of the fact that this law exists, and prosecution based on abuse go together at present

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

You've certainly done your best to try and explain why you don't need to justify your seemingly random keyboard vomits...disappointed, but not surprised.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

So non incestuous rape is legal?

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

You are sooooo funny - really, very amusing ...

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

No.
I was talking about the case, if no one files a charge.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

I don't understand why it's more likely to bring a charge against incestuous rape under an incest law rather than a rape law.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

I would have thought that was obvious ...

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

As an example, a case of incest between a father and daugther becomes public.
To file a charge against the father, the daughter would have to claim she had been raped, and the case would be opened.
Under incest law, the state prosecutor can file a case based on incest, without the need of anyone to file a case of rape.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Why would anyone need to file a complaint? An adult having sex with any minor is statutory rape and will be prosecuted as such. If the father daughter incest was made public, even though incest is illegal, I'd imagine they'd prosecute under statutory rape anyway.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

We are talking about adults having 'consensual' incestuous relationships.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Now something for those who speak German and were in their teens during the 90ies: (ok, wrong forum maybe)

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/394711/G...ive_Die_Aerzte

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwisterliebe )

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

I don't get your point: If the daughter was consenting, then she is as much at fault as the father, so the prosecutor would open a case against both of them.

If the daughter was not consenting, then your example (depending on the age of the daughter and the circumstances) would be a case of either statutory rape, rape or coercion, all of whom are "offizialdelikte", meaning that the prosecutor opens a case without the daughter having to file a case (of course, the prosecutor has to know about it, which he does in your example).

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Which doesn't happen in reality, unfortunately.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Your sole argument was that it might give potential abusers a green light. Then when I ask you to support your supposition, you refuse and instead resort to groaning. I only get groaned by people who have already been or are about to be banned . . . I think that says something. You really shouldn't get defensive and evasive about your beliefs. If others can't question your opinions, perhaps you should question your own.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Is this definitely the case? In many jurisdictions under-age sex is statutory rape anyway.

In Switzerland, all recent cases of incest there were child abuse convictions anyway, thus the incest laws were redundant.

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Yes, but it's the same thing with incest.