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-   -   Bundesrat wants to remove incest law (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/101465-bundesrat-wants-remove-incest-law.html)

native 15.12.2010 18:55

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CHiLDREN, WHEN IT'S ALL ABOUT CONSENTING ADULTS?!

Upthehatters2008 15.12.2010 18:56

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Says who ? Read the threads and catch up.

native 15.12.2010 19:06

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1045882)
Says who?

Everyone but you.
Find me a credible source that this would change anything except for consenting adults.

Upthehatters2008 15.12.2010 19:09

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by native (Post 1045891)
Everyone but you.
Find me a credible source that this would change anything except for consenting adults.

Sorry, could you reword that so that it makes sense ?

Firstly, start with the original thread, nowhere is it limited to adults.

Then catch up.

native 15.12.2010 19:25

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1045897)
Sorry, could you reword that so that it makes sense ?

You've understood perfectly well. Nobody who is against the legalization (except you) makes the argument that this would change anything except for consenting adults. Why? Because it wouldn't.

Why don't you show me any official reaction to the proposal that would suggest otherwise?

Upthehatters2008 15.12.2010 19:29

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by native (Post 1045916)
You've understood perfectly well. Nobody who is against the legalization (except you) makes the argument that this would change anything except for consenting adults. Why? Because it wouldn't.

Why don't you show me any official reaction to the proposal that would suggest otherwise?

Sorry,you are either barmy or a troll. Perhaps both.

Why on earth do you think there would be an official reaction to an official proposal ? The officials would be arguing with and contradicting themselves.

Get real !

native 15.12.2010 19:36

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1045920)
Sorry,you are either barmy or a troll. Perhaps both.

Why on earth do you think there would be an official reaction to an official proposal ? The officials would be arguing with and contradicting themselves.

Get real !

There have been many official reactions by political parties like the SVP, the EVP, the CVP, etc. who all oppose it.

Upthehatters2008 15.12.2010 19:41

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by native (Post 1045927)
There have been many official reactions by political parties like the SVP, the EVP, the CVP, etc. who all oppose it.

Do you have any idea about what a forum is about, and what a debate is all about, are all EFers to keep quiet simply because they are not officials ?


By the way, you just answered your own question lol... If not, just what are you trying to ask ??? You are not very coherent.

Getting back to your original red rant. There is no restriction on this topic to keep it within the confines of consenting adults. Take a deep breath and suck it down...

Gastro Gnome 15.12.2010 20:02

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1045932)
There is no restriction on this topic to keep it within the confines of consenting adults. Take a deep breath and suck it down...

I think Native simply means (please correct me if I'm wrong, Native) that if the law were abolished, the only people who would be affected are consensual adults. Cases of child incest would continue to be prosecuted under other abuse laws. Indeed, this is the very reason the Bundesrat gives for the proposal.

native 15.12.2010 20:08

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastro Gnome (Post 1045953)
I think Native simply means (please correct me if I'm wrong, Native) that if the law were abolished, the only people who would be affected are consensual adults. Cases of child incest would continue to be prosecuted under other abuse laws. Indeed, this is the very reason the Bundesrat gives for the proposal.

Yes. Thank you. And even those who oppose the law don't claim that it would affect anyone else.

Upthehatters2008 15.12.2010 20:14

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by native (Post 1045960)
Yes. Thank you. And even those who oppose the law don't claim that it would affect anyone else.

So you have to use red bold caps lock shouting style to stifle debate that is contrary to your belief ? Grow up.

Read the debate properly.

zymogen 15.12.2010 20:23

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panda (Post 1045771)
1.) Should they be allowed to bear children, if not how do you enforce this?
2.) Should they be allowed to marry, if not why not?
3.) Would you be happy/comfortable to have people in such a relationship in your close circle of friends?

1. No, the risks outweight the benefits. I can't think of any enforcement but prison time, only that wouldn't solve the problem.

2. No, allowing marriages would be a sign of approval.

3. No. Although they would make interesting study objects in the wider circle of acquaintances.

Gastro Gnome 15.12.2010 20:27

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zymogen (Post 1045979)
3. No. Although they would make interesting study objects in the wider circle of acquaintances.

This completely lacks humanity.

zymogen 15.12.2010 20:35

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastro Gnome (Post 1045982)
This completely lacks humanity.

I neither understand, sympatize nor emphatize with incestous couples.

Wollishofener 15.12.2010 20:50

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OSueco (Post 1045253)
I really....really....really hope the most of you are joking when you're saying that you are PRO of removing the incest law...please leave it there, it will give a clear signal to the sickos! What's next, fathers could be able to marry their daughters? God this makes me sick!

That you regard the members of the Swiss Federal Council (with one or two exceptions -- Mr Maurer and possibly Mrs Widmer-Schlumpf) as "sickos" goes a bit too far ! Incest without marriage does NOT take place on the open road, but behind closed doors, and so, a law like this is completely ineffective.

The idea of the Federal Council is NOT to allow incest but to drop ineffective unnecessary laws. And no, near relatives are NOT be allowed to marry !

There is a side-aspect which in fact is very important and that is that both SVP and CVP in the past very heavily up to drop laws they deemed unnecessary, which had been brought into effect by either SP or FDP. As SVP+CVP will succeed in keeping THIS law alive, the SP and FDP folks in future will have a precedent when the SVP attacks really useful laws of the other side.

15.12.2010 20:52

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zymogen (Post 1045979)
1. No, the risks outweight the benefits. I can't think of any enforcement but prison time, only that wouldn't solve the problem.

2. No, allowing marriages would be a sign of approval.

3. No. Although they would make interesting study objects in the wider circle of acquaintances.

I propose banning you from having children. I think the hereditary IQ risks clearly outweigh the benefits.

Wollishofener 15.12.2010 21:08

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazysniper (Post 1045304)
This is insane. Whoever is trying to remove this Law must be a F-eking Psycho.

Its like legalizing rape in a way for f-eck sake!. Absolute Madness!

No, it is not legalizing anything but dropping an ineffective law. Policemen are NOT allowed to look into private bedrooms to check up what goes on, which would be a condition for that law to have any real effect

Or do you really fear that non-marital incest will, after the dropping of this law, in future take place on the open road ;)

Wollishofener 15.12.2010 21:12

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panda (Post 1045294)
If close relatives should be allowed to have sex and children then shouldn't the marriage question come up? Would that be taboo but everything else just fine?

A) the marriage-question ? you can check on marriages very easily but NOT on sex behind closed doors.
B) no chance if anybody wanted to make marriage between close relatives legal
C) relatives also after the dropping of that law were not allowed to do anything more than now, nothing will change in reality

and a side-note. In many small towns and many villages, some 85% of the people share two or three family-names ! Ever considered why this is possible ? I can tell you why ! Because the members of the authorities and the judiciary are among those 85% !

Wollishofener 15.12.2010 21:19

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazysniper (Post 1045348)
Whats wrong with the language i used? Isn't that English to you? :msnsarcastic:

Why i think scrapping the incest Law is in a way legalizing rape? because in my eyes its almost the same. I am entitled to my own opinion right? Otherwise whats the point of having a forum? After all, someone can use this loophole to get away with rape. Don't you think?

And no, i am not a friend of the person you are referring to.

You of course are entitled to your opinion, but you are neither entitled to commit rape nor are you entitled to marry a member of your closer family :p

a question in principle however might be whether Osueco and you are entitled to insult the national government of your country of residence. Possibly yes here in Switzerland, but abstain from such things when being in France. There, you when insulting either the Assemblée Nationale or the Président de la République will be tracked down by the Gendarmerie Nationale or the Deuxième Bureau, land up in court, and disappear for a while in prison !

zymogen 15.12.2010 21:48

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1046008)
I propose banning you from having children. I think the hereditary IQ risks clearly outweigh the benefits.


Let me (partially) quote you:
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 1041973)
... This isn't relevant to the argument.



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