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Old 11.12.2010, 18:01
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

As I understood: Every case of incest with a person younger than 16 is covered by the laws about underage sex. The cases of unwanted incest sex with both people over 15 are covered by the general laws about rape, concent etc.
So the only case here is when two adults of the same family have sex and like it.
1. First grade cousins : forbidden now, will that be then allowed?
2. Siblings : forbidden now, will that be then allowed?
3. Transgenerational : forbidden now when direct genetic link, will that then be allowed?

Anything I misunderstood? Are those questions valid? What are the answers?

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  #62  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:05
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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Sadly this is a real problem with some Indian groups and arranged marriages. I don't understand incest, just as I do not understand being gay- but I try my best to be tolerant of others. My favourite aunt lost her family and her religion by marrying her cousin (a bit different to having sex with a brother or a parent..) - but she made sure NO children were begotten.
There is a bit of a difference. Being hetero-s., bi-s., homo-s. is a given leaning and not a decision to do something or not. Doing incest is doing something which by law, by science and by religion is advocated against, and this for good and well proven reasons.

You mention people who had sex "sure, no children". Now, imagine that the incest law comes out of times when there were no antibabypills and no preservatives, so that having sex contained a certain probability that children were "to be left behind" . And so, that law needs to be revised or replaced. I however do not believe that anybody wants to "re-legalize" incest
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  #63  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:20
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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So how does society act when the situation arises , without laws the offenders carry on unrestrained ? If there is little evidence to support a law, we need not worry about the law being there. The real victims would be innocent offspring and the future bearers of the genes. This is an act against our race, and should not be tolerated. Make the law stronger, do not remove it.
Would the law in question become dropped, SVP, CVP and EVP will launch an initiative which they will win by more than 80%. So that I expect the law simply get updated and revised.
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  #64  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:25
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

There is something to be said for keeping the SVP/UDC/PPS busy with something else than initiatives about foreigners for once. Incest will do, just for a change. I think the Swiss population as well as the foreigners deserve a break.
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  #65  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:29
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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That some people are pigheaded, ethnocentric, politically correct morons who will pick a scrap for no reason whatsoever, whereas others preach tolerance, even as they are prepared to acknowledge that they do not understand why people act as they do.

Odile was born and grew up in a different time and place to you, a place where homosexuality was considered in exactly the same light as perversions such as incest and bestiality. The fact that she is now prepared to speak for tolerance of the same speaks volumes about her personality and willingness to think for herself.

You should try it sometime.

But ..... pleeeaaase ! Odile is NOT that old. And in post WWII periods, homosexuality was not considered in the same category as incest, and incest was not considered in the same category as bestiality.
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  #66  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:32
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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One word: IMMORAL

I'm totally with SVP on this one (Never Thought I Would Say That)
But the immorality aspect is a minor one. What matters is the severe danger to the children of such couples, which means that it is a HEALTH-matter
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  #67  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:34
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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I disagree, I have a stake in the gene pool and I don't want some horny bro-mo freaks pissing in the shallow end with banjo playing offspring...
You appear to be confusing having sex and having children. For a while now it's been possible to do one without the other.
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  #68  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:38
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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And I imagine that is because you are not 'that way inclined'. However, for those that are, it could be seen as something of a green light ...
And your evidence for this is?
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  #69  
Old 11.12.2010, 18:45
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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And your evidence for this is?
My use of the word 'could' implies that this is merely hypothesis.
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Old 11.12.2010, 18:46
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

I don't think there's been much discussion of the situations in which the repeal of this law might help.

Occasionally relatives are separated at birth. If they meet as adults, many many years later, there may be some attraction. Why should the state have a say in what happens next? Yes, there should be laws against procreation when the family relationship is too close. And of course there should be strong laws against child abuse (I really don't see what this has to do with this).
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  #71  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:11
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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You appear to be confusing having sex and having children. For a while now it's been possible to do one without the other.
No confusion here. The lack of common sense and decency extends to the lack of contraception. Ignorance all round.
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  #72  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:13
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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I don't think there's been much discussion of the situations in which the repeal of this law might help.

Occasionally relatives are separated at birth. If they meet as adults, many many years later, there may be some attraction. Why should the state have a say in what happens next? Yes, there should be laws against procreation when the family relationship is too close. And of course there should be strong laws against child abuse (I really don't see what this has to do with this).
You play the Banjo ?
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  #73  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:22
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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..actually, he's been on my case for the last couple of days. So either he's got some personal issues with me, or he's into man love, which I'm not into but I totally tolerate....but you're right, this is getting a tad bit too insipid.
How does it feel LIB? To have someone picking on you?

At least he isn't picking on you as a person, a male, a worker or a childless person like you do on others (being women, mother, housewives and ''popping out'' kids).

Got some of your money back, didn't you? DB still able to do it like a gentleman with manners and without being plain rude and hurtful.

Maybe something to learn from him?
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  #74  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:33
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

Back on topic please, ladies and gentlemen.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but these days it would be quite possible for a guy and a gal who fell in love to be half brother and half sister without knowing it anyway. They don't even have to have been separated at birth as mentioned earlier. They could be born in widely different areas but still have the same father.
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  #75  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:37
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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No confusion here. The lack of common sense and decency extends to the lack of contraception. Ignorance all round.
Are you saying those in an adult consenting relationship somehow lack decency according to your definition?
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  #76  
Old 11.12.2010, 19:43
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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frankly, what happens in bed between two consenting adults shouldn't be anyone else's business.
Are you being serious ...?

So it's ok for a father to sleep with his daughter
Or mother with son
Or sister with brother

Providing they consent ??

I guess that explains most of the locals here in the Oberland ....
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Old 11.12.2010, 19:45
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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Are you saying those in an adult consenting relationship somehow lack decency according to your definition?
Incest by definition is a lack of decency. An unnatural act. Consenting adults know the reasons why they should avoid incest. This point is moot, to defend incest is just the act of a troll, or an ignoramus, or a squint eyed banjo playing hillbilly.
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Old 11.12.2010, 19:46
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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Are you being serious ...?

So it's ok for a father to sleep with his daughter
Or mother with son
Or sister with brother

Providing they consent ??
Why not?

If incest is wrong, just because, then what is to prevent someone else from saying that something you or I enjoy is wrong, just because?
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Old 11.12.2010, 19:48
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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Incest by definition is a lack of decency. An unnatural act.
So was buggery, until the laws against it were abolished.
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Old 11.12.2010, 19:50
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Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law

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Incest by definition is a lack of decency. An unnatural act. Consenting adults know the reasons why they should avoid incest. This point is moot, to defend incest is just the act of a troll, or an ignoramus, or a squint eyed banjo playing hillbilly.
I don't think there's anything wrong with two consenting adults deciding how to live their own lives. There is no harm to another here to be considered.

The laws against incest are a religious hangover. In France they got rid of their incest laws over 200 years ago. You really have to be VERY conservative to oppose this modernisation.

You accuse me of being a troll, or ignorant, or in some way retarded . . . and yet this modernisation has been proposed by mainstream politicians across Europe. Now please put your bigotry back in its box.
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