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-   -   Bundesrat wants to remove incest law (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/101465-bundesrat-wants-remove-incest-law.html)

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 18:52

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

So was buggery, until the laws against it were abolished.
Human laws are irrelevant here, The laws of nature, and genetics take precedent. Incestuous people are like GM scientists, in it for greed and lust and to he'll with the consequences. It has been wrong since the beginning, outcast since the beginning and no amount of liberal thinking will produce a strong enough case that will change how nature makes us think about these acts. Pro-incest arguments reveal just a little too much about the prescribed.

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 18:52

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
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So was buggery, until the laws against it were abolished.
Seems to be a pet subject of yours!! However, I believe that incest laws were probably introduced to avoid the probability of defective offspring being porduced as a result of incestuous coupling.

MathNut 11.12.2010 18:53

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041888)
Incest by definition is a lack of decency. An unnatural act. Consenting adults know the reasons why they should avoid incest. This point is moot, to defend incest is just the act of a troll, or an ignoramus, or a squint eyed banjo playing hillbilly.

Huh? Last time I heard this line of argument trotted out, it was about fellatio, and all the squint-eyed banjo players were on your side of the question (i.e. opposed to such an obviously unnatural act.) What's different?

Gastro Gnome 11.12.2010 18:54

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041902)
Seems to be a pet subject of yours!! However, I believe that incest laws were probably introduced to avoid the probability of defective offspring being porduced as a result of incestuous coupling.

Yes . . . thousands of years before we had contraception.

If a brother and sister who wanted to marry agreed to be sterilized, how could you object to that if your initial objection was related to procreation?

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 18:54

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastro Gnome (Post 1041896)
I don't think there's anything wrong with two consenting adults deciding how to live their own lives. There is no harm to another here to be considered.

The laws against incest are a religious hangover. In France they got rid of their incest laws over 200 years ago. You really have to be VERY conservative to oppose this modernisation.

You accuse me of being a troll, or ignorant, or in some way retarded . . . and yet this modernisation has been proposed by mainstream politicians across Europe. Now please put your bigotry back in its box.

So you want this law repealed for what purpose ? Nature wins this argument, not a ballot box. Your arguments just fall to the ground. To you the Earth is flat...

Guest 11.12.2010 18:55

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041902)
Seems to be a pet subject of yours!!

Merely comparing like with like. :)


Quote:

However, I believe that incest laws were probably introduced to avoid the probability of defective offspring being porduced as a result of incestuous coupling.
Indeed. In the days before contraception. Now that contraception is available, is there a single good reason to argue against the right of adults to sleep with other consenting adults?

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 18:56

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathNut (Post 1041903)
Huh? Last time I heard this line of argument trotted out, it was about fellatio, and all the squint-eyed banjo players were on your side of the question (i.e. opposed to such an obviously unnatural act.) What's different?

You speak of man made laws and morality...Observe what nature has to say on the topic.

Guest 11.12.2010 18:57

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041910)
You speak of man made laws and morality...Observe what nature has to say on the topic.

Animals shag their siblings and offspring all the time.

What's your point?

(The last time I heard the "unnatural" argument trotted out, it was being used by nutty religious extremists to talk about oral and anal sex :D)

MathNut 11.12.2010 18:58

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041902)
Seems to be a pet subject of yours!! However, I believe that incest laws were probably introduced to avoid the probability of defective offspring being porduced as a result of incestuous coupling.

Sure they were - and like fornication laws, they were a brilliant idea at the time. But also like fornication laws, they've pretty much outlived their social utility. It is no longer a given that sexual partnership will result in 6-10 children (or death in childbed, whichever comes first) and so the legitimate need to regulate sexual behavior for the greater good is much less.

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 19:00

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastro Gnome (Post 1041905)
Yes . . . thousands of years before we had contraception.

If a brother and sister who wanted to marry agreed to be sterilized, how could you object to that if your initial objection was related to procreation?

I have not said that I objected; sterilised brothers and sisters can do whatever they like, assuming that the laws were repealed. However, I still maintain that it is morally ill-conceived, notwithstanding all DB's arguments relating to buggery, falatio, etc etc.

MathNut 11.12.2010 19:02

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Animals shag their siblings and offspring all the time.
What he said. ^^ Ever spent any time on a farm? Bulls don't care if the cow in heat in the next pasture is related to them or not; neither do stallions, rams, roosters, ganders... (Nor does the female of the species for that matter - lest you think I'm trying to pin it all on the menfolk.)

Guest 11.12.2010 19:02

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041916)
I still maintain that it is morally ill-conceived

On what grounds?

And what right has government to dictate sexual morals where consenting adults are involved?

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 19:02

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathNut (Post 1041914)
Sure they were - and like fornication laws, they were a brilliant idea at the time. But also like fornication laws, they've pretty much outlived their social utility. It is no longer a given that sexual partnership will result in 6-10 children (or death in childbed, whichever comes first) and so the legitimate need to regulate sexual behavior for the greater good is much less.

So, does that imply that you are pro incestuouos relationships?

Guest 11.12.2010 19:03

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041919)
So, does that imply that you are pro incestuouos relationships?

:confused:

That's a somewhat bizarre question, isn't it?

Gastro Gnome 11.12.2010 19:03

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041906)
So you want this law repealed for what purpose ? Nature wins this argument, not a ballot box. Your arguments just fall to the ground. To you the Earth is flat...

The purpose of repealing the law is so that consenting adults aren't prosecuted for something which does absolutely no harm to anyone else.

By the way, if you're main aim here is to prevent the production of 'defective' offspring, are there other groups you'd like to target, perhaps with sterilization or gene therapy? The urge to do away with those with genetic illnesses would seem more at home in the 1930s when eugenics was popular.

Your style of discussion this evening doesn't seem particularly level.

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 19:04

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

:confused:

That's a somewhat bizarre question, isn't it?
Not at all, given the quote that I was referring to ...

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 19:04

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Animals shag their siblings and offspring all the time.

What's your point?

(The last time I heard the "unnatural" argument trotted out, it was being used by nutty religious extremists to talk about oral and anal sex :D)
...unnatural. Acted against by nature in humans. Nature hardwires humans against the act. If you aren't against it, check your wiring.

Gastro Gnome 11.12.2010 19:05

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041916)
I have not said that I objected; sterilised brothers and sisters can do whatever they like, assuming that the laws were repealed. However, I still maintain that it is morally ill-conceived, notwithstanding all DB's arguments relating to buggery, falatio, etc etc.

Morally ill-conceived on what basis? Where are you getting your morality from and why should others be subject to it?

Guest 11.12.2010 19:05

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041922)
Not at all, given the quote that I was referring to ...

If I defend the right of Muslims to eat halal meat, does that mean that I am pro-halal meat?

I don't think so... :rolleyes:

Faltrad 11.12.2010 19:06

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041902)
Seems to be a pet subject of yours!! However, I believe that incest laws were probably introduced to avoid the probability of defective offspring being porduced as a result of incestuous coupling.

Incest laws are a direct expression in juridical area of the cultural taboo linked to incest. Religion is another expression of such culture and reinforce as a moral authority such a taboo. Clear text: it's in the old testament.
The true question in Europe was the limit in the cousin line. There were areas where only cousin of second degree and above could mary with each other, other areas allowed also first degree (In Lapland, norwegian Finnmark until after the war. Special dispensation possible until recently).


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