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-   -   Bundesrat wants to remove incest law (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/101465-bundesrat-wants-remove-incest-law.html)

Guest 11.12.2010 19:58

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1042014)
Not least your Brummy thingy - but there have been other things that I have picked up on the past that would certainly point to a certain disdain with regards to the UK.

My disdain for certain feral aspects of British culture do not extend to believing that young women only have babies to get state handouts (or even, if they are, that they should be prevented from doing so), if that's what you are implying.

You know I'm not the chap in the avatar, don't you?

jj muge 11.12.2010 19:58

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042008)
...having just read that Switzerland has one of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility, at 7, my arguments are starting to wane...

hmmm...and the book doesn't look so tempting anymore.
Based on the only review on amazon by "someone"
"It would be a mistake for readers of this work to accept the accuracy of the material illustrating incestuous relationships and the quality of Mary Hamer's interpretation of that material. To anyone actually familiar with the original material it becomes clear that she repeatedly commits gross errors, including the misattribution and invention of quotations, the invention of narratives and contexts, and displays an ignorance of biographical and chronological fact. This is a thoroughly shoddy piece of work, a shocking violation of the most basic standards of inquiry and analysis"

Sada 11.12.2010 19:58

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Hey Assassin get your arse back in here and see what upheaval you've caused with your thread here!!! :);):eek:

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 20:01

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

My disdain for certain feral aspects of British culture do not extend to believing that young women only have babies to get state handouts (or even, if they are, that they should be prevented from doing so), if that's what you are implying.

You know I'm not the chap in the avatar, don't you?
I kind of thought not. And let's not get involved in an argument about state handouts and whether or not women should be prevented, or discouraged, from popping out sprogs willy nilly.

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 20:01

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:


You know I'm not the chap in the avatar, don't you?
Had me going for months on that one when I first joined :D

MathNut 11.12.2010 20:03

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041980)
I will concede that behind closed doors, between two consenting adults, and if measures are taken to avoid conception, that I offer no argument against this.

Brilliant! So we're down from "It's an indecent/unnatural act" to "some people really shouldn't breed."

One step at a time then. Why shouldn't particular couples breed? Because society has a vested interest in reducing the number of defective children to support, right, got it. Is that interest compelling enough to override personal sexual choice, though?

Think about the ramifications for a minute before you say yes. Is incest the one and only case where you think government should have a veto on people's reproductive decisions? What about related couples whose gene tests indicate they probably are genetically compatible despite being related - can they apply for an exemption in your world? Or what about related couples who realize they may produce a disabled child, but who are willing to take that risk? What if they prove they have the funds to support it without costing society a dime?

Next up, what about unrelated couples who share a dangerous recessive gene? Is it society's business to identify them and stop them from breeding? Or what about:
- drug addicts
- the mentally handicapped
- the fugly
For the greater good of society, should any of them really be breeding? If not, is it the government's place to stop them?

If you're going to draw the line somewhere across the middle of all this (incest laws good, forced sterilization bad) then you need to ground that somehow. Well, you don't need to - unfounded or mysteriously-founded opinions are all right - but it would sure help us have a better discussion.

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 20:03

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jj muge (Post 1042017)
hmmm...and the book doesn't look so tempting anymore.
Based on the only review on amazon by "someone"
"It would be a mistake for readers of this work to accept the accuracy of the material illustrating incestuous relationships and the quality of Mary Hamer's interpretation of that material. To anyone actually familiar with the original material it becomes clear that she repeatedly commits gross errors, including the misattribution and invention of quotations, the invention of narratives and contexts, and displays an ignorance of biographical and chronological fact. This is a thoroughly shoddy piece of work, a shocking violation of the most basic standards of inquiry and analysis"

Someone ???

Still, it was a very good read. Opinions will differ.

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 20:05

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathNut (Post 1042023)
Brilliant! So we're down from "It's an indecent/unnatural act" to "some people really shouldn't breed."

My arguments and feelings that it is an unnatural act still stand.

Whether or not this should be allowed under law is a point I have already conceded.

jj muge 11.12.2010 20:12

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042024)
Someone ???

Still, it was a very good read. Opinions will differ.

yes, someone on the internet, his name is Belassis. He is from London...
You mentioned the correlation between incest and abuse. I'm not really educated on this subject so I thought it would be interesting to know more about this correlation as this seemed to be one of the reasons for you to be against the a change in this law.

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 20:14

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jj muge (Post 1042033)
yes, someone on the internet, his name is Belassis. He is from London...
You mentioned the correlation between incest and abuse. I'm not really educated on this subject so I thought it would be interesting to know more about this correlation as this seemed to be one of the reasons for you to be against the a change in this law.

But surely your research beyond Amazon has convinced you of the link ?

jj muge 11.12.2010 20:17

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042036)
But surely your research beyond Amazon has convinced you of the link ?

obviously I have not done any research.

this is all sounding wrong...sorry. I was just interested in your argument, and wanted to know why you would mention the correlation between abuse and incest in this context

MathNut 11.12.2010 20:20

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042027)
My arguments and feelings that it is an unnatural act still stand.

Whether or not this should be allowed under law is a point I have already conceded.

Fair enough. :) I think telemarketing is an unnatural act but I concede that it probably oughtn't be an illegal one.

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 20:25

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathNut (Post 1042040)
Fair enough. :) I think telemarketing is an unnatural act but I concede that it probably oughtn't be an illegal one.

It's a bit harsh to compare Telemarketers with Incestuous child abusers. I am sure some people involved in incest at least make a contribution to society in some way of other.

Gastro Gnome 11.12.2010 20:30

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042042)
It's a bit harsh to compare Telemarketers with Incestuous child abusers. I am sure some people involved in incest at least make a contribution to society in some way of other.

It's a bit harsh to compare consenting adults to child abusers generally isn't it?

Wollishofener 11.12.2010 20:30

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sada (Post 1041936)
Do you mean I can have sex with another adult on the bus in broad daylight and not get into trouble with the law?

Your problem then will not be the sex action but various offences
- disturbance of public order
- diverting the attention of the bus-driver
- violating the regulations of the company

NSchulzi 11.12.2010 20:31

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastro Gnome (Post 1042044)
It's a bit harsh to compare consenting adults to child abusers generally isn't it?

I don't recall that being said ...

11.12.2010 20:48

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1042027)
it is an unnatural act

so is flying in an aeroplane.

Wollishofener 11.12.2010 20:51

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolaschulz (Post 1041972)
On the contrary - does not this in itself imply that law (particularly regarding relations between siblings) was based on something other than morals and beliefs?

The law was based on the fact that incest results almost inevitably in degenerational defects among the offspring. And so in a way IS justified. But the law in its old form is both outdated and most likely ineffective. There still in fact is another law which prohibits the marriage of relatives.

I am absolutely sure that nobody in the Federal Council is in favour of incest. They just propose to drop a law which in practice, under the framework of the rest of the legislation, cannot really be brought into effect.

Let's be clear, we speak here about sexual contact among relatives who both AGREE. Now imagine something thelike taking place. What do you expect ? The neighbours spying on them, taking a video with some technical tricks ? And then notifying the police ?

nickatbasel 11.12.2010 21:09

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
I'm surprised the SVP are opposed to such a change in the law - given their typical electoral base.

Cheers,
Nick

Deep Purple 11.12.2010 21:09

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
With all the discussion going on, everyone seems to have missed that Sada wants to have sex on a bus in broad daylight :rolleyes: ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sada (Post 1041936)
Do you mean I can have sex with another adult on the bus in broad daylight and not get into trouble with the law?



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