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-   -   Bundesrat wants to remove incest law (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/101465-bundesrat-wants-remove-incest-law.html)

Assassin 10.12.2010 17:13

Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Just heard a snippet on the radio about the Bundesrat wanting to remove current incest legislation with reference to intercourse between legally aged family members.

Article 213 of Swiss law states:

Quote:

Article 213 of the Swiss Penal Code prohibits incest. Intercourse among siblings or other persons related by blood in direct line is punishable by up to three years imprisonment. The federal government proposed to abolish this prohibition in 2010, arguing that in the few cases where persons were convicted of incest (about three to four each year), other sexual crimes such as child sexual abuse were also committed.
http://www.tagesschau.sf.tv/Nachrich...e-legalisieren

Rather amazingly (not), the traditionalist parties (SVP, CVP & EDP) are rather opposed to this, one can probably see their point.

Oedipus sends his love....:eek:

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to believe that I'm just going to get a pair of socks or a book voucher from the old folks this Christmas.

Phil_MCR 10.12.2010 17:19

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
frankly, what happens in bed between two consenting adults shouldn't be anyone else's business.

Richard 10.12.2010 17:20

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assassin (Post 1041188)
Just heard a snippet on the radio about the Bundesrat wanting to remove current incest legislation with reference to intercourse between legally aged family members.

Article 213 of Swiss law states:



http://www.tagesschau.sf.tv/Nachrich...e-legalisieren

Rather amazingly (not), the traditionalist parties (SVP, CVP & EDP) are rather opposed to this, one can probably see their point.

Oedipus sends his love....:eek:

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to believe that I'm just going to get a pair of socks or a book voucher from the old folks this Christmas.

As long as the SVP don't put this on their kicking out initiative for automatic big boot it should stay, which means I am siding with the SVP for the second time in a month:eek:. For example, what if you don't know its your sister/brother you are about to marry...

Upthehatters2008 10.12.2010 17:24

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 1041196)
frankly, what happens in bed between two consenting adults shouldn't be anyone else's business.


I disagree, I have a stake in the gene pool and I don't want some horny bro-mo freaks pissing in the shallow end with banjo playing offspring...

Guest 10.12.2010 17:27

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
My favourite aunt married her cousin- they had to move to New York first- and of course chose not to have children.

Ziger 10.12.2010 17:36

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Well, any changes in the law would be subject to referendum. I'm trying to picture what the SVP campaign poster on the subject would look like?

Downerbuzz 10.12.2010 17:53

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 




but yuck

Wollishofener 10.12.2010 21:42

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziger (Post 1041212)
Well, any changes in the law would be subject to referendum. I'm trying to picture what the SVP campaign poster on the subject would look like?

they will then show pictures like here :


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...yUk_oKYyNamH6Q
and the text below would be
do you want the next generation to look like this ?

MrVertigo 10.12.2010 21:52

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Seriously, the Bundesrat has no other urgent and important topics to address. How many people are concerned? Does it make sense to have a law for such few cases.

tkn 10.12.2010 22:24

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 

Upthehatters2008 10.12.2010 22:55

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
The rumours are true, SVP=Motherffluckers? , literally...

I make no apologies. What kind of sickos want this sin against nature legalised ? Ethics and morality abound here, but Mother Nature has the last laugh.

Guest 10.12.2010 23:02

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Sadly this is a real problem with some Indian groups and arranged marriages. I don't understand incest, just as I do not understand being gay- but I try my best to be tolerant of others. My favourite aunt lost her family and her religion by marrying her cousin (a bit different to having sex with a brother or a parent..) - but she made sure NO children were begotten.:msnsick:

slammer 10.12.2010 23:26

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Woe is me
Shame and scandal in the family
Woe is me
Shame and scandal in the family

In Switzerland there was a family
With much confusion as you will see
It was a mama and a papa and a boy who was grown
He wanted to marry, have a wife of his own
Found a young girl that suited him nice
Went to his papa to ask his advice
His papa said: "Son, I have to say no,
This girl is your sister, but your mama don't know"

Vikster 10.12.2010 23:31

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Nature clearly indicates that it is genetically wrong!! (increased amount of homozygotes in offspring, leading to congenital birth defeats) and socially taboo - makes my stomach turn at the thought :msnsick::msnsick::msnsick: bleurghhhh...

Illegal for a very good reason, and should be kept that way!

Wollishofener 10.12.2010 23:35

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 1041350)
Seriously, the Bundesrat has no other urgent and important topics to address. How many people are concerned? Does it make sense to have a law for such few cases.

A majority of the Federal Council apparently regards that existing law as not making sense and wants to abolish it



************************************************** ****************



Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041382)
The rumours are true, SVP=Motherffluckers? , literally...

I make no apologies. What kind of sickos want this sin against nature legalised ? Ethics and morality abound here, but Mother Nature has the last laugh.

The SVP does NOT want it legalized, but SP, CVP and FDP regard the law apparently as no longer required and want to have it abolished


************************************************** ***************************

Chris83 10.12.2010 23:49

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
I'm a big fan of removing unneccessary laws. It seems senseless to legislate against incest when our genes to a pretty good job of doing so anyway.

Wollishofener 10.12.2010 23:54

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris83 (Post 1041415)
I'm a big fan of removing unneccessary laws. It seems senseless to legislate against incest when our genes to a pretty good job of doing so anyway.

This apparently also is the position of the SP/CVP/FDP majority in the federal government

zymogen 11.12.2010 00:25

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris83 (Post 1041415)
I'm a big fan of removing unneccessary laws. It seems senseless to legislate against incest when our genes to a pretty good job of doing so anyway.

It's actually under debate whether (only) our genes are responsible for the disgust when thinking about a sexual relationship with parents/siblings.

The "Westermarck effect" says that we feel less sexual attraction to people we were close to during the first 6 years of our life. With divorces increasing and many people having a 'second' family it's not unusual that the kids don't grow up with their siblings/halfsiblings and don't develop this natural aversion against incest.

:msncrazy:

SamWeiseVielleicht 11.12.2010 01:36

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 1041350)
Seriously, the Bundesrat has no other urgent and important topics to address. How many people are concerned? Does it make sense to have a law for such few cases.

Yes, there are more important topics. Such as the harmonization of penalties in the swiss penal code and the swiss military penal code, where hundreds of different articles were checked for consistency , applicability and proportionality, the article on incest being just one of dozens and dozens of articles that were looked at in the preliminary stage for the introduction of the "federal law on the harmonization of penalties".

All the fuss is about a very early stage in the law-making process (consultation), even before the final draw of the proposed law is put before the parliament for the first time.

IMHO, the final product will be changed and the article on incest will be kept the way it is.

miniMia 11.12.2010 06:09

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 1041350)
Seriously, the Bundesrat has no other urgent and important topics to address. How many people are concerned? Does it make sense to have a law for such few cases.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read this. I think everyone who can vote should write and tell them to cut the crap & focus on what is important.

Mimster 11.12.2010 06:27

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris83 (Post 1041415)
I'm a big fan of removing unneccessary laws. It seems senseless to legislate against incest when our genes to a pretty good job of doing so anyway.

How about the children? They or society are the ones that will have to deal with their disabilities and deformities that may result from this and even if all is okay genetically, there is still the stigma associated with this. Most of the comments focus on the legality and practically of the law and the view of the adults involved...how about from the child's perspective -how do you think you would feel being the byproduct of an incest relationship? where your father is also your uncle and your mother is also your aunt?

I am all for consenting adults making their own choices, as they need to live with the consequences of these choices. Sex should not be banned for consenting adults (even if incest) but I would be for regulations and guidelines regarding children of these relationship. I know this is not politically correct at all and this is the only situation I feel that having children should be regulated. Respect to Odile's aunt for making what I think the right conscious choice to not have children.

lost_inbroad 11.12.2010 08:01

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Sadly this is a real problem with some Indian groups and arranged marriages. I don't understand incest, just as I do not understand being gay- but I try my best to be tolerant of others. My favourite aunt lost her family and her religion by marrying her cousin (a bit different to having sex with a brother or a parent..) - but she made sure NO children were begotten.:msnsick:
..I seriously don't understand, how you can say that being gay is remotely in the same category as incest.

NotAllThere 11.12.2010 08:13

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assassin (Post 1041188)
...
Oedipus sends his love....:eek:
...

Oedipus, shchmedipus. What does it matter so long as a boy loves his mother. :rolleyes:

Assassin 11.12.2010 08:21

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
There are probably some serious issues going on in a family that would create the desire to have a physical relationship between 2 people. I couldn't imagine anything so distasteful to be honest. But then again, I wasn't exposed to country music growing up ..... :msnsarcastic:

dino 11.12.2010 08:30

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_inbroad (Post 1041474)
..I seriously don't understand, how you can say that being gay is remotely in the same category as incest.

it's in the same category only in as much as he does not understand them... I thought that was rather clear ...

nickatbasel 11.12.2010 09:21

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 1041476)
Oedipus, shchmedipus. What does it matter so long as a boy loves his mother. :rolleyes:

Cue Tom Lehrer:



Cheers,
Nick

Upthehatters2008 11.12.2010 10:42

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1041408)
A majority of the Federal Council apparently regards that existing law as not making sense and wants to abolish it



************************************************** ****************





The SVP does NOT want it legalized, but SP, CVP and FDP regard the law apparently as no longer required and want to have it abolished


************************************************** ***************************


So how does society act when the situation arises , without laws the offenders carry on unrestrained ? If there is little evidence to support a law, we need not worry about the law being there. The real victims would be innocent offspring and the future bearers of the genes. This is an act against our race, and should not be tolerated. Make the law stronger, do not remove it.

Sada 11.12.2010 14:27

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Laws are only there for a minimum protection to keep up a more or less sane society.
Not that would hold some people back from screwing anyone, anything, anywhere anytime anyway though.

Deep Purple 11.12.2010 14:38

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
I fail to see any logic behind repealing a law just on the basis that not many people break the law.

Fair enough if a law is out of date or no longer relevant to modern society.

I guess that there must be a small amount of time required to administer existing laws: checking that they are still current, checking for loopholes etc. so it makes sense not to have irrelevant laws on the statute books.

In this case, not having a law could well cause more problems.

I don't think that there would be a sudden rush for people to marry their siblings but it would surely be more difficult to deal with the very few cases that do exist.

Guest 11.12.2010 14:42

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1041543)
The real victims would be innocent offspring and the future bearers of the genes.

One could use that argument to prevent any Swiss people breeding. :)

lost_inbroad 11.12.2010 14:52

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 1041480)
it's in the same category only in as much as he does not understand them... I thought that was rather clear ...

Dino, a sexual orientation is a trait such as race, gender, height etc. and by no means would classify as a psychological disturbance such as feeling sexually attracted to your family members.

Guest 11.12.2010 14:55

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_inbroad (Post 1041668)
Dino, a sexual orientation is a trait such as race, gender, height etc. and by no means would classify as a psychological disturbance such as feeling sexually attracted to your family members.

That wasn't Odile's point at all. She was merely acknowledging that some people have feelings and preferences that she couldn't even begin to understand, but that we should tolerate them all the same.

You're just being politically correct, but you're picking on the wrong target here.

lost_inbroad 11.12.2010 15:01

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

That wasn't Odile's point at all. She was merely acknowledging that some people have feelings and preferences that she couldn't even begin to understand, but that we should tolerate them all the same.

You're just being politically correct, but you're picking on the wrong target here.
No, Odile said "I don't understand incest, just like I don't understand being gay but I try to be tolerant...". That means that to him/her homosexuality and incest is on the same level which isn't at all since one cannot chose to be homosexual but one can surely chose to be involved in incest (at least in Western culture one can chose).

Guest 11.12.2010 15:07

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_inbroad (Post 1041676)
blah blah blah deliberately missing the point just to start a scrap

You know, not everyone is of the same age and culture as you, LiB.

Just sayin'. :msnshock:

lost_inbroad 11.12.2010 15:09

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

You know, not everyone is of the same age and culture as you, LiB.

Just sayin'. :msnshock:
...what does that have to do with anything?

Guest 11.12.2010 15:15

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_inbroad (Post 1041688)
...what does that have to do with anything?

That some people are pigheaded, ethnocentric, politically correct morons who will pick a scrap for no reason whatsoever, whereas others preach tolerance, even as they are prepared to acknowledge that they do not understand why people act as they do.

Odile was born and grew up in a different time and place to you, a place where homosexuality was considered in exactly the same light as perversions such as incest and bestiality. The fact that she is now prepared to speak for tolerance of the same speaks volumes about her personality and willingness to think for herself.

You should try it sometime.

Mowvich 11.12.2010 15:23

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
One word: IMMORAL

I'm totally with SVP on this one (Never Thought I Would Say That)

Enaj 11.12.2010 15:29

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

My favourite aunt married her cousin- they had to move to New York first- and of course chose not to have children.
My (not quite favourite) aunt married her cousin too and had a daughter who was schizophrene and caused an awful lot of problems

lost_inbroad 11.12.2010 15:30

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

That some people are pigheaded, ethnocentric, politically correct morons who will pick a scrap for no reason whatsoever, whereas others preach tolerance, even as they are prepared to acknowledge that they do not understand why people act as they do.

Odile was born and grew up in a different time and place to you, a place where homosexuality was considered in exactly the same light as perversions such as incest and bestiality. The fact that she is now prepared to speak for tolerance of the same speaks volumes about her personality and willingness to think for herself.

You should try it sometime.
..moron huh? and you're somebody people trust their children with?
Newsflash DB, the fact that we're like totally in the 21st century and all speaks volumes about Odile's stance on homosexuality...because putting a natural occurance on the same level as incest just isn't all that right is it? But all this "politically correctness" is probably too much to bare for an archaic person like you right? ;)

Guest 11.12.2010 15:34

Re: Bundesrat wants to remove incest law
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_inbroad (Post 1041707)
Newsflash DB, the fact that we're like totally in the 21st century and all speaks volumes about Odile's stance on homosexuality...

What stance? Tolerance?

Let's just look again at the sentence to which you so vehemently object:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odile
I don't understand incest, just as I do not understand being gay- but I try my best to be tolerant of others.

Why do you have a problem with Odile preaching tolerance, LiB?


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