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  #181  
Old 20.12.2010, 16:54
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Some cantons do have immigration language courses, those with high ratio. I was asked to teach in one, I think I will take up on it when it is ok for us not to be paid for work. The trouble is, they are not high quality at all. If you fish for a good teacher, you are ok, but if you don't you might end up with somebody constantly yelling at you, trying to spell "g o o g l e " to a lot more educated people than her patronizing self, etc. The innappropritate classroom behavior happened to me a couple of times, I swiftly reported and changed the profs. Some people dare a lot to foreigners when there is no control. So, while we are at the eye tearing idea of love and respect for the country, human requirements, it works both ways..
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  #182  
Old 20.12.2010, 16:55
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Sometimes they are asked to do so. I have an Italian acquaintance who was asked by some Swiss moms from her child's school not to speake Italian anymore "because she's living now in Switzerland and in the German part." (she's from Southern Italy and it happened some years ago)
How would you feel? Would you "proudly" continue to speak your lingo exposing your child to even more bullying and rudeness or would you just not speak your lingo in public at least? Hard to say, especially when one is not in this position.
I'd leave. When in bigoted, racist company, leaving the room is the civilised choice.
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  #183  
Old 20.12.2010, 16:57
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Well, God knows someone needs to come here and teach the Swiss how to cook. I would not have survived here had it not been for ethnic markets. Imagine eating nothing but potatoes, sausages, and dairy products day in and day out.

The whole compulsory language requirement is fascist to the core. The truth is, the SVP is afraid people can manage to live here without the involvement of the Swiss. Communities of people speaking the same language strengthens the community. I don't believe the SVP would like to see any sub-cultures flourish and take root in Switzerland. The language requirement issue would effectively break down any ethnic community strongholds.
Nail. Head. Vaporised.
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  #184  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:00
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Sometimes they are asked to do so. I have an Italian acquaintance who was asked by some Swiss moms from her child's school not to speake Italian anymore "because she's living now in Switzerland and in the German part." (she's from Southern Italy and it happened some years ago)
How would you feel? Would you "proudly" continue to speak your lingo exposing your child to even more bullying and rudeness or would you just not speak your lingo in public at least? Hard to say, especially when one is not in this position.

Haha. I was also requested by my kid's teacher to speak Swiss German at home. I laughed in her face.

I told her, "Look, I come from an international world. English is key to functioning in this world. I am ensuring that my kids will continue to be fluent in English, so we will be continuing to speak English at home. Your Swiss students will also likely have to learn English, and to be perfectly frank, I don't think Swiss German is that essential for me." She was dumbfounded by the directness of the comment, and walked away quietly.

If I were her, I might have suggested they learn more Italian because Italian sounds a lot more beautiful than Swiss German.
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  #185  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:04
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Actually for a while now I've been of the opinion that this really is not about language, integration or all the usually stuff the SVP go on with. It's really about the bi-laterals and the SVP's desire to frustrate them. Little by little they are trying to chip away at them, in the hope that at some point the EU will simply get browned off and cancel them.

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  #186  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:05
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Phos... how is that different from left politics in France? The same policy would be left in France and fascistic in Switzerland?
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  #187  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:07
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

I learned my first German from my Dad, who's about 5th generation German from one of those little enclaves in the U.S. where immigrants from certain countries would congregate- like the Swedes and Fins in northern Michigan and such. His family did its best to keep traditions alive from the old country, while integrating and becoming 'merican. So his great, great, great, great, grandmother ***ked a *****r, - crap, True Romance moment- so his folk's folk's folks kept tradition and culture alive from 'home', balancing that with integrating into their new home. Super! Didn't read the rest of the thread, but we're doing the same, bi-cultural family in a 3rd culture. Yogurt supreme. The square heads in right field want tests? Before coming? Wha'ever. Never happen. Test to get a C permit I can see. Wha'ever.
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  #188  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:07
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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If I were her, I might have suggested they learn more Italian because Italian sounds a lot more beautiful than Swiss German.
Indeed. The Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, who really did have a perspective on such matters said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men and German to my horse."
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  #189  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:09
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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yeah yeah cheeky so and so. Alright, but I don't have a specific problem with the locals, they just keep getting on my case with language and general foreigner hating. And they aren't generally too friendly. And they have toilet flushing and lawn mowing and car washing issues. But other than that they're awesome. Oh, and the far right SVP is a major party with loads of genuine popular support. And everything costs 4 times as much including the fruit which is always rotten by the time it makes it home and....
They are awesome, this is turning into yet nother gripe thread, hahaha...They are most awesome. I do think it is a good, healthy symbiosis, to influence the locals to let go a bit from their controlling tendencies and us sucking up our pride a tad, learn how to be humble and take orders when needed. I think it is great. I just don't want to be sneared at for keeping a part of my own identity, language at home for example, or ease I laugh with, spontaneity, fearlessness, I don't want to become people pleaser and paranoid about dirty windows and car that is parked with 2" incorrectness...that's what make people people, their unique stuff, I don't want locals to try to push it out of us. I think what really is happening, no matter of the whole SVP shibang, everyone benefits here from the (watch out, my fav word) melange here. I think, overall, foreigners are well accepted, I think the peeps up there dislike the fact the most of the population has already made up their mind, which is actually like the foreigners here and live with them, help them adjust, support and learn from them. That's mostly my experience: at work, at home, in our town, where we used to live in boonies. I think peeps up there lose control a tad over what may have been easily controlled before, that's why the campaigns are so in our face and so loud. Otherwise, they wouldn't have to be. Right?
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  #190  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:09
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Phos... how is that different from left politics in France? The same policy would be left in France and fascistic in Switzerland?
Because it's a myth that the political (not economic) right and left are far apart. Indeed if you go far enough to the left and right, they'll meet. That's why the Nazi party was National Socialism.
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  #191  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:12
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

So you mean that Blochers obsession with Swissness and France's republican tradition are one and the same thing? Wow... write a book about it, that's quite a sensational discovery. You'll be famous.
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  #192  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:13
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Phos... how is that different from left politics in France? The same policy would be left in France and fascistic in Switzerland?
I'm not sure which french leftist policies you are referring to, but I think it is a common misunderstanding that fascism is an attribute of the right. I happen to think fascism often comes from the left.

In this and many cases, the SVP platform is based on maintaining Swiss hegemony in Switzerland. They are going up against a wall that is "the rest of the world", and trying to maneuver so that the Swiss come up on top in Switzerland. They will try to do this by socially engineering Switzerland through legislation.
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  #193  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:16
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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I'd leave. When in bigoted, racist company, leaving the room is the civilised choice.
That would be my favourite option too, but we both know that sometimes people can't leave just like that and they have to put up with a lot of crap...I believe first generation of immigrants it's a sacrifice generation in most cases. Not only they have difficulties in learning the local language, adapting to a new culture, but also because they feel their kids would practically speak "another language" (language meaning also a different culture, a different set of values). This acquaintance of mine thought her son to be open and friendly and one day he came home from school and said "it was all her fault, teaching him unrealistic things, Swiss people are not like that". I really pity all the foreign parents having to deal with such conflicts and a love/hate relation of a child to his parents' native culture(if I might call this relation like that) when raising children abroad.
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  #194  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:19
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

I see... so left is right and right is left. That's impressive. You should tell the NPD and Blocher about it, they don't seem to know that.
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  #195  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:20
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I see... so left is right and right is left. That's impressive. You should tell the NPD and Blocher about it, they don't seem to know that.
I'm sorry, do you have a point to make that isn't self indulgent sarcasm, or would you like to leave the room while the adults are speaking?
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  #196  
Old 20.12.2010, 17:21
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That would be my favourite option too, but we both know that sometimes people can't leave just like that and they have to put up with a lot of crap...I believe first generation of immigrants it's a sacrifice generation in most cases. Not only they have difficulties in learning the local language, adapting to a new culture, but also because they feel their kids would practically speak "another language" (language meaning also a different culture, a different set of values). This acquaintance of mine thought her son to be open and friendly and one day he came home from school and said "it was all her fault, teaching him unrealistic things, Swiss people are not like that". I really pitty all the foreign parents having to deal with such conflicts and a love/hate relation of a child to his parents' native culture(if I might call it like that) when raising children abroad.

I have heard from Swiss Italians who have been living in Zurich for decades. They say that to this day, the Swiss Germans play the language card on them to make them seem less Swiss, although the Swiss Italians are fully Swiss.

So take heart expats. Don't expect so much from them, and you will be less disappointed. Also, rest assured that things are changing fast.
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Old 20.12.2010, 17:21
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That would be my favourite option too, but we both know that sometimes people can't leave just like that and they have to put up with a lot of crap...I believe first generation of immigrants it's a sacrifice generation in most cases. Not only they have difficulties in learning the local language, adapting to a new culture, but also because they feel their kids would practically speak "another language" (language meaning also a different culture, a different set of values). This acquaintance of mine thought her son to be open and friendly and one day he came home from school and said "it was all her fault, teaching him unrealistic things, Swiss people are not like that". I really pity all the foreign parents having to deal with such conflicts and a love/hate relation of a child to his parents' native culture(if I might call this relation like that) when raising children abroad.
Then smile sweetly, nod kindly, and continue doing whatever you like. Stop speaking mellifluous Italian in favour of dialect German? Pah!
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Old 20.12.2010, 17:22
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I'm sorry, do you have a point to make that isn't self indulgent sarcasm, or would you like to leave the room while the adults are speaking?
BURRRNNNNNNN


(can I stay?)
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Old 20.12.2010, 17:26
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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I'm sorry, do you have a point to make that isn't self indulgent sarcasm, or would you like to leave the room while the adults are speaking?
I stay as long as I have something to learn from the Masters. You have a new fan, that's a good thing for you. I've just learnt that Stalin and Hitler actually were good political friends and that their war obviously was not for real as far-left meeting far-right would not end up in a conflict but in a wonderful garden party.

I've also learnt what a glass house is.

My real opinion about the Blocher matter is: See above.
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Old 20.12.2010, 17:31
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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I stay as long as I have something to learn from the Masters. You have a new fan, that's a good thing for you. I've just learnt that Stalin and Hitler actually were good political friends and that their war obviously was not for real as far-left meeting far-right would not end up in a conflict but in a wonderful garden party.

I've also learnt what a glashouse is.

My real opinion about the Blocher matter is:
Blocher couldn't care less about what we all think or discuss. It's about the next election and basic rethorics strategy. I don't vote, but I teach the latter. So if I wanted to be indulgent sarcastic, that would be more than you can handle.
Good friends? No, in the same way that two psychotics might like to kill each other, but be more similar than either could imagine. H and S both had nice little views about elimination of various sectors of society in order to achieve betterment. They were practically the same.

None of your second paragraph makes much sense except to say that you're already more than we can handle Faltrad.
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