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  #281  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:14
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Just like the verb "Dancing" became a noun here.
The teens go to the dancings, like my colleagues sign up for the learnings.

Just don't pretend it's still English.
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  #282  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:27
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Are we still talking about the original topic? It looks as this thread is going in a different direction.
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  #283  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:48
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Cannot come to terms with the fact that a voluntarily New Year's resolution stands a chance of becoming a real compulsory nightmare!
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  #284  
Old 04.01.2011, 14:31
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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The teens go to the dancings, like my colleagues sign up for the learnings.

Just don't pretend it's still English.
I think that's the point, the Swiss want to own English, they have taken English words and swissified them, it's kind of like the language the teens speak in London. Handy- town- dancing- learnings.
The content (vocabulary) may be incorporated, but only if it complies to Swiss standard from (grammar). As long as it facilitates the flow of ideas then it's all good. However I fear that the aim of the test is to impede the flow of certain cultures, their ideas (unfavourable to the SVP) by denying them entry to the country.
the SVP are like the US Republicans; they bracket everything they propose as acting in according to the wishes of the Volk- the Swiss people. However they avoid properly informing the Swiss people as to the ramifications of such decisions and who really has the most to gain.
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  #285  
Old 04.01.2011, 17:47
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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they bracket everything they propose as acting in according to the wishes of the Volk- the Swiss people.
You would have thought that people realised the dangers of the völkisch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement
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  #286  
Old 04.01.2011, 18:00
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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The Swiss have owned dancing, one of my greatest pleasure in life has been owned by the Swiss? I am doomed- doomed

I really have to take Wollishoffner for a walk around London, I am sure that his eyes will pop at the mixture of nationalities, more than I have see anywhere else in the world including NY. At the last count there were over 270 nationalities in London. London is linguistically the most diverse capital in the world with over 250 languages. Officially, more than 1/4 of the population is from an alternative ethnic background, in fact I would say that these figures are outdated in the last two years, there has been a massive influx of foreign nationalities into London. Many Poles left but others took their place.

I found it truly chaotic but inspiring, so many different tastes, smells, art, colours, fashion. I asked my family if they did not feel swamped, they said -No- they seem to create their own markets. My brother took me to the new Covent Garden Market- that was a shock, even to me, so many cultures that I had never experienced, but such resourceful and inventive people, they can recycle anything!
A) Nobody owns "dancing", but "Dancings" here are owned by their owners
B) Listen, I have been in London quite many times, and know and love the diversity of the place. It in total may well beat Switzerland. A massive influx of foreign nationalities into London has happened repeatedly before. Such things happen in waves.


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The teens go to the dancings, like my colleagues sign up for the learnings.

Just don't pretend it's still English.
It clearly is NOT English, just the use of an English word. Also if you see the word "City" on traffic-signs, it is NOT English, but the German word for "downtown" And I never, in English speaking countries, saw anybody making phone calls with "a Handy"


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I think that's the point, the Swiss want to own English, they have taken English words and swissified them, it's kind of like the language the teens speak in London. Handy- town- dancing- learnings.
The content (vocabulary) may be incorporated, but only if it complies to Swiss standard from (grammar). As long as it facilitates the flow of ideas then it's all good. However I fear that the aim of the test is to impede the flow of certain cultures, their ideas (unfavourable to the SVP) by denying them entry to the country.
the SVP are like the US Republicans; they bracket everything they propose as acting in according to the wishes of the Volk- the Swiss people. However they avoid properly informing the Swiss people as to the ramifications of such decisions and who really has the most to gain.
Nobody in Switzerland wants to "own" the English language, but why not use expressions / words out of English ?

To compare US parties and Swiss parties is a bit tricky in so far as the USA has just two major parties, while Switzerland has 4, with the Green-Liberals increasingly emerging as nr 5 . While the Republicans in many places have an absolute majority, the SVP share is between 15% and 35% (average 26%).


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Last edited by Wollishofener; 04.01.2011 at 18:29.
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  #287  
Old 04.01.2011, 18:15
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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A) Nobody owns "dancing", but "Dancings" here are owned by their owners
B) Listen, I have been in London quite many times, and know and love the diversity of the place. It in total may well beat Switzerland. A massive influx of foreign nationalities into London has happened repeatedly before. Such things happen in waves.
I shall resort to rhythmic prancings to music.
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  #288  
Old 04.01.2011, 18:19
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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The Swiss have owned dancing, one of my greatest pleasure in life has been owned by the Swiss? I am doomed- doomed

I really have to take Wollishoffner for a walk around London, I am sure that his eyes will pop at the mixture of nationalities, more than I have see anywhere else in the world including NY. At the last count there were over 270 nationalities in London. London is linguistically the most diverse capital in the world with over 250 languages. Officially, more than 1/4 of the population is from an alternative ethnic background, in fact I would say that these figures are outdated in the last two years, there has been a massive influx of foreign nationalities into London. Many Poles left but others took their place.

I found it truly chaotic but inspiring, so many different tastes, smells, art, colours, fashion. I asked my family if they did not feel swamped, they said -No- they seem to create their own markets. My brother took me to the new Covent Garden Market- that was a shock, even to me, so many cultures that I had never experienced, but such resourceful and inventive people, they can recycle anything!
A) Nobody owns "dancing", but "Dancings" here are owned by their owners
B) Listen, I have been in London quite many times, and know and love the diversity of the place. It in total may well beat Switzerland. A massive influx of foreign nationalities into London has happened repeatedly before. Such things happen in waves.


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The teens go to the dancings, like my colleagues sign up for the learnings.

Just don't pretend it's still English.
It clearly is NOT English, just the use of an English word. Also if you see the word "City" on traffic-signs, it is NOT English, but the German word for "downtown" And I never, in English speaking countries, saw anybody making phone calls with "a Handy"


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I think that's the point, the Swiss want to own English, they have taken English words and swissified them, it's kind of like the language the teens speak in London. Handy- town- dancing- learnings.
The content (vocabulary) may be incorporated, but only if it complies to Swiss standard from (grammar). As long as it facilitates the flow of ideas then it's all good. However I fear that the aim of the test is to impede the flow of certain cultures, their ideas (unfavourable to the SVP) by denying them entry to the country.
the SVP are like the US Republicans; they bracket everything they propose as acting in according to the wishes of the Volk- the Swiss people. However they avoid properly informing the Swiss people as to the ramifications of such decisions and who really has the most to gain.
Nobody in Switzerland wants to "own" the English language, but why not use expressions / words out of English ?

To compare US parties and Swiss parties is a bit tricky in so far as the USA has just two major parties, while Switzerland has 4, with the Green-Liberals increasingly emerging as nr 5 . While the Republicans in many places have an absolute majority, the SVP share is between 15% and 35% (average 26%).


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Are we still talking about the original topic? It looks as this thread is going in a different direction.
The original topic ? It was about
- Mr Blocher stirring the pot
- languages in Switzerland
- integration of immigrants


As he met the opposition of most of the industry-leaders, and also opposition from many in his own party, the topic itself changed clearly


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Last edited by Wollishofener; 04.01.2011 at 18:32.
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  #289  
Old 04.01.2011, 18:33
hoppy
 
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Nobody in Switzerland wants to "own" the English language, but why not use expressions / words out of English ?

To compare US parties and Swiss parties is a bit tricky in so far as the USA has just two major parties, while Switzerland has 4, with the Green-Liberals increasingly emerging as nr 5 . While the Republicans in many places have an absolute majority, the SVP share is between 15% and 35% (average 26%).
Perhaps if I am attempting to get jiggy with the hip speech I should substitute the word 'pwned'?
Hopefully the language of love will overcome all with its rhythmic waves and even dancings,when permitted.

Talking of stirring the pot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHT_V294Co
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  #290  
Old 04.01.2011, 18:48
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Are people trying to reason about the intricacies of Swiss life and politics with a troll without any links whatsoever to Switzerland or am I seeing things?
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  #291  
Old 04.01.2011, 19:01
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Many claim to have seen trolls, some say they exist in Switzerland but I don't believe that Blocher has a policy on them as of yet, I suppose it depends on whether they will pass the language test?

Mr DB's input might be useful here- that old sage!

#2
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thecrustycurmudgeon.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/troll-doug-wildman-flickr.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/58048-what-do-you-think-swiss-germans.html&usg=__xFuQ__wNU4AqirelKwKM6Jx6LxY=&h= 332&w=500&sz=146&hl=en&start=8&zoom=1&tbnid=BAHfV5 EaY14oEM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dswiss%2Btroll%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cl ient%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26channel%3Ds%26gbv%3D1%26tbs%3Disch:1 &um=1&itbs=1
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  #292  
Old 04.01.2011, 21:30
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Are people trying to reason about the intricacies of Swiss life and politics with a troll without any links whatsoever to Switzerland or am I seeing things?
I do not regard "hoppy" as a troll, but rather as a US-American with some links to Europe, who feels amazed, amused and bewildered by what goes on here. Look at the comparison of SVP and the US-Republicans. Quite to the point in some aspects, but clearly not relevant as the USA has that TWO-party system, which is "exotic" by Swiss standards. The Republicans in the USA are what the FDP, the SVP and the right 60% of the CVP would be if united into one party. And the Democrats in the USA are what the SP, the 40% of the CVP, the 20% left of the FDP, etc, would be if united. I had many similar discussions with relatives in Texas and Louisiana, at worst until 4am, and can tell you that they are NOT troll, but fairly intelligent or even very much so, but goings on in Central Europe are very strange for them.
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  #293  
Old 04.01.2011, 21:40
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Many claim to have seen trolls, some say they exist in Switzerland but I don't believe that Blocher has a policy on them as of yet, I suppose it depends on whether they will pass the language test?

Mr DB's input might be useful here- that old sage!

#2
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...:1&um=1&itbs=1

While Blocher Basha is the "chief-ideologue" of the SVP and a billionaire, you give him far too much attention. And in case he HAS a "policy" in this regard, it would just be HIS policy, and at a maximum the one of his party, but miles away from getting adopted by the country.
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  #294  
Old 05.01.2011, 00:30
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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I don't think anyone's actually asked the most fundamental question here and that's "why?". Why is it a good thing to learn the language? Why is it a good thing to integrate?
Why? I don't believe that any one race is innately more intelligent than any other, so as proven throughout history a successful society will be one where there is easy transmission of ideas.
Spoken or written language is perhaps the most highly developed way in which we communicate, it allows us to deal with concepts in the abstract. So in order to gain the intelligences of another society, to enrich our own we need to learn their language.
However, the most intelligent people are those who are not afraid to communicate, they are willing to compromise their identity in order to move ahead; they do not fear change. They welcome innovation, which allows them to communicate more intelligently. No language is pure, no race is pure, no intelligence is pure.

I like to mix cultures, but you can only do that when you have respect and try to understand the ingredients that you mix I like Asian/ French fusion food and I like Indonesian/ Iranian fusion, but I don't achieve this by liberally sprinkling cheap curry powder over kebabs or putting five spice powder on rice. I try to get to know the individual ingredients and techniques to prepare them in the traditional way, then try various blends to find out which tastes match and which don't. My favourite cooks are Malaysian, they can copy and blend may different styles successfully. In the end the palate of the consumer (as long as it is well educated and not dictated to) will decide.

The better you understand another language, the better you understand the culture, but not everyone wants to assimilate completely- only the stupid assimilate completely. Many switch identities and languages, but the most successful consolidate all the different intelligences, overcome barriers through verbal and non-verbal and find ways to facilitate exchange of learning.

Which is why I think that a forward thinking society should allow all languages in and not promote barriers to cultural understanding. The main controlling language will probably be English as it is the most flexible in forms and has the richest vocabulary. It continues to be the dominant language because it can adapt and incorporate different intelligences, vocabulary and forms.

The mistake of the Swiss is to think that Western intelligences are the most valuable, they hope avoiding dilution of the official languages they will remain strong. I think that this is a phallacy. They are in danger of becoming entrenched in outdated ways of thinking. The fastest growing economies are in emergent markets, how can they stay ahead of the game in they insist on only communicating with those who speak one of their languages? Rather, they should look to those within their own societies who have already crossed the cultural bridges, those who respect and understand both cultures and so can facilitate the best solutions.

The Swiss say one thing to manipulate the vote and placate the poor and behind closed doors they are not stupid they get on with what they need to do on an international level. For example there really hasn't been much discussion in the media about whether Switzerland should adopt Islamic banking-no major vote on whether it would erode the values of Swiss traditions, no ominous threatening posters of Islamic banks taking over the country and brainwashing people, yet Islamic banking options are well accommodated! But those minarets- ooh they were visible and dangerous.
At a higher level the banks and industrialists deal with the Turks, Arabs and Iranians for massive import/export deals. What they fail to realize is that they may be harbouring seeds of resentment in neglecting to appreciate the value of their own ethnic populations, that could come back to bite them.
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  #295  
Old 05.01.2011, 03:08
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Just like the verb "Dancing" became a noun here.
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The teens go to the dancings, like my colleagues sign up for the learnings.

Just don't pretend it's still English.
Wolli makes it clear that "dancing" isn't being used as an English word, but rather as an addition to German vocabulary, just as "voilà tout" came from French. But I can't help but wonder---if the Swiss were to say in English, "Let's go to the dancing." would that be considered a new dialect of Swiss-English?
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  #296  
Old 05.01.2011, 08:17
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Wolli makes it clear that "dancing" isn't being used as an English word, but rather as an addition to German vocabulary, just as "voilà tout" came from French. But I can't help but wonder---if the Swiss were to say in English, "Let's go to the dancing." would that be considered a new dialect of Swiss-English?
Worse would be "Let's go to the dancing in our trainers"

Tom
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  #297  
Old 05.01.2011, 08:21
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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I think that this is a phallacy.

phallacy: a lie regarding one's penis size


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=phallacy

Tom
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  #298  
Old 05.01.2011, 19:52
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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phallacy: a lie regarding one's penis size


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=phallacy

Tom
I keep doing that- so embarrassing, and the more I think about it the more worked up I get.
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Old 05.01.2011, 22:39
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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phallacy: a lie regarding one's penis size


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=phallacy

Tom
A simple Freudian slip, leave the poor guy alone; he obviously has bigger ( I mean smaller) problems.
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Old 05.01.2011, 23:27
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Wolli makes it clear that "dancing" isn't being used as an English word, but rather as an addition to German vocabulary, just as "voilà tout" came from French. But I can't help but wonder---if the Swiss were to say in English, "Let's go to the dancing." would that be considered a new dialect of Swiss-English?
English-teachers in Switzerland always warn their students NOT to use this sentence in England as it would simply be wrong

But just look at the word "check". Above 30 Swiss use this word in the standard English sense as to examine/re-calculate/look-through, BUT teens and twens use it for "understand". "Check'shes" used by them means "do you understand it". And the saying of them "hät er's ändlich checkd ? " means "has he finally understood it" . "Dee checkd's eifach nööd" means "He simply fails to understand it" . Go in Zurich to the "Bellwü" (officially Bellevue) and you have another case. Or below the Bahnhofplatz you find the Shopville (pronounced Shopppwill)
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