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Old 19.12.2010, 03:16
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Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Yet another interesting proposal about furriners forthcoming in the New Year ..

According to 20min,

Quote:
... immigrants must prove in the future with an exam at a Swiss embassy before entering that they have mastered one of the four national languages.

In order to remain in CH, a more difficult test will be proposed...
Source in DE ( crude translation into EN here )
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Old 19.12.2010, 04:05
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

What a xmas present..
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Old 19.12.2010, 04:23
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Clearly, this will help to keep illegal immigrants out and solve the problem with poorly integrated refugees.
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Old 19.12.2010, 04:32
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Clearly, this will help to keep illegal immigrants out and solve the problem with poorly integrated refugees.
Uhm, how will it help with keeping illegal immigrants out? Besides, poorly integrated refugees are usually poorly integrated for other than linguistic reasons (ours quite often actually grew up speaking French), one of them might be the discriminatory attitude towards them in general..
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Old 19.12.2010, 04:34
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Maybe I was being ironic.
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Old 19.12.2010, 04:37
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Maybe I was being ironic.
Right. One never knows with natives...
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Old 19.12.2010, 05:41
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

I think that foreigners should be required to learn the language. It is not a bad idea.
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Old 19.12.2010, 09:27
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Maybe I was being ironic.
No, you were being sarcastic. Please learn the language properly before visiting the uK. Thanks .
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Old 19.12.2010, 09:32
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Yet again we have to realise that this is an initiative aimed at 3rd country nationals - it would not be possible to introduce this into the bilateral agreements with the EU. And, of course, it would probably be applied selectively to 3rd country nationals with the usual states being excluded or having exceptions provided.

I see more chance of English being adopted as an official language before this nonsense becomes law.
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Old 19.12.2010, 10:45
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

There are many highly skilled scientists who go to the UK and the US to share their very specialised skills- and guess what?

For ONCE, and I never thought I'd ever say that, I agree with Blocher. We are not talking here about being fluent, but about being able to communicate on a basic level. What is wrong with that - even if it is for 1 or 2 years - or for life.
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Old 19.12.2010, 14:09
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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There are many highly skilled scientists who go to the UK and the US to share their very specialised skills- and guess what?

For ONCE, and I never thought I'd ever say that, I agree with Blocher. We are not talking here about being fluent, but about being able to communicate on a basic level. What is wrong with that - even if it is for 1 or 2 years - or for life.
Did you even read what Blocher wants, he wants that people coming here should take a written test...
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Old 19.12.2010, 14:24
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

In which case it is out of order and counterproductive, I agree. For me it is just a question of basic respect - if you choose to go and live in another country, you learn how to communicate at basic level. Irrelevant whether those people speak your language or not. The sheer arrogance of any group of people just expecting the rest of the world to learn their language and work in it, and yet not make any effort to reciprocate- is just beyond me and truly bad manners. I have no problem with English being used as a common language for business- it just makes sense. Esperanto never took on, and English is clearly the common denominator in so many fields. Accepted, done, great by me. But if you choose to live somewhere, it just makes sense to learn the language (and yes, I do appreciate there are issues relating to this in the Swiss German part - but as said before you'd have to make your own judgement as to whether standard German or your local brand would make more sense. I'd say learn as much standard German as poss, but some basic expressions for everyday greetings, shopping, etc in dialect). I just cannot fathom why this does not make sense to some of you.

As a teacher of French and German in the UK for so many years- I can assure you that until very recently, French was compulsory for all UK kids (well a second language, but for 99.9% it was French) - so most of the Brits here would have done a few years at school. And as you are very clever clogs, many of you would have done German too, as it was the formula that kids in set 1 and 2 would be offered German too.

Just basic respect and courtesy- and would be great dividends in your relationship with the locals, I am sure. What so riles me, is that so many who refuse to make any effort here, would be the very ones who would highly criticize immigrants in the UK or US for not learning English. And perhaps the ones who'd complain loudly about foreign kids costing a fortune to integrate and teach, and take up much of the teacher's time and attention, etc.
Some are more equal than others of course.
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Old 19.12.2010, 14:35
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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In which case it is out of order and counterproductive, I agree. For me it is just a question of basic respect - if you choose to go and live in another country, you learn how to communicate at basic level. Irrelevant whether those people speak your language or not. The sheer arrogance of any group of people just expecting the rest of the world to learn their language and work in it, and yet not make any effort to reciprocate- is just beyond me and truly bad manners. I have no problem with English being used as a common language for business- it just makes sense. Esperanto never took on, and English is clearly the common denominator in so many fields. Accepted, done, great by me. But if you choose to live somewhere, it just makes sense to learn the language (and yes, I do appreciate there are issues relating to this in the Swiss German part - but as said before you'd have to make your own judgement as to whether standard German or your local brand would make more sense. I'd say learn as much standard German as poss, but some basic expressions for everyday greetings, shopping, etc in dialect).

As a teacher of French and German in the UK for so many years- I can assure you that until very recently, French was compulsory for all UK kids (well a second language, but for 99.9% it was French) - so most of the Brits here would have done a few years at school. And as you are very clever clogs, many of you would have done German too, as it was the formula that kids in set 1 and 2 would be offered German too.

Just basic respect and courtesy- and would be great dividends in your relationship with the locals, I am sure. What so riles me, is that so many who refuse to make any effort here, would be the very ones who would highly criticize immigrants in the UK or US for not learning English. Some are more equal than others of course.
Very well said. I completly agree. I think, living and working for years in country and don't making the effort to learn one of the local languages is nothing else than incredible rude and moreover pretty arrogant too.
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Old 19.12.2010, 14:41
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Condescending was the other word I was looking for.
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Old 19.12.2010, 14:32
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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All children in Switzerland are required to learn English at school. Therefore, by all rights and common sense, English should also be included as one of the compulsory languages that immigrants could choose to speak.

By the way, I doubt this will pass because too complicated to enforce.
Sorry, this is not common sense at all: the SVP obviously wants to use the language skills as a barrier for the types of foreigners they do not want to see here. Especially the ones that look differently... this would not work with accepting English as everybody speaks English nowadays, from Russia to China to India...

Sorry that it hits your nationality this time as well... when it was the others and "only Yugos" were discriminated against on the posters, you still supported the SVP ideas. You know: they don't want you to be here either - just accept it - and they definitely not want English as an official language.
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Old 20.12.2010, 13:40
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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There are many highly skilled scientists who go to the UK and the US to share their very specialised skills- and guess what?

For ONCE, and I never thought I'd ever say that, I agree with Blocher. We are not talking here about being fluent, but about being able to communicate on a basic level. What is wrong with that - even if it is for 1 or 2 years - or for life.
What is wrong with that? Well nothing, except that Switzerland will be left with only the poorer, more dependent immigrants who really need to be here. The multimillionaire, top-tax-bracket hedge funders that Switzerland really needs will just hop off elsewhere. This is a room temperature IQ, Daily Mail-esque proposal designed to sound reasonable while being utterly stupid and unworkable.
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Old 20.12.2010, 14:12
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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What is wrong with that? Well nothing, except that Switzerland will be left with only the poorer, more dependent immigrants who really need to be here. The multimillionaire, top-tax-bracket hedge funders that Switzerland really needs will just hop off elsewhere. This is a room temperature IQ, Daily Mail-esque proposal designed to sound reasonable while being utterly stupid and unworkable.
Oh Economisto ! May I dear to address myself directly to the great hedge fund trader that you seem to be? If so, here are two citations your condescending attitude has reminded me of:

One is in French, and it simply goes "Tu ne te prends vraiment pas pour de la merde!" (And, personally, that's really hard to stand...)

The second is in German and much more profound: "Die Friedhöfe sind voll mit unersetzlichen Leuten"

I am sure you will find fellow EF participants to translate the local lingo for you
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Old 20.12.2010, 14:20
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

Translation (it's the rule):

"Tu ne te prends vraiment pas pour de la merde!" - you have a high opinion about yourself (you really don't consider yourself to be sh!t)

"Die Friedhöfe sind voll mit unersetzlichen Leuten" - The graveyeards are full of irreplaceable people.
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Old 20.12.2010, 14:42
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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Translation (it's the rule):

"Tu ne te prends vraiment pas pour de la merde!" - you have a high opinion about yourself (you really don't consider yourself to be sh!t)

"Die Friedhöfe sind voll mit unersetzlichen Leuten" - The graveyeards are full of irreplaceable people.
Do you think he will get the sarcasm when it's not explicitly mentioned/translated as well?
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Old 20.12.2010, 14:57
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Re: Compulsory language test for intending immigrants is on the cards, says Blocher

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A propos czech government: they checked gay asylum seekers by showing them straight-sex porn and measuring if they were excited or not The EU is asking to stop the practice.
Oops, now, that's worse than assessing people's langauge skills, innit. It's not even funny. I guess at least I learned a new word, "phallometric". Wunderbar.

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Translation (it's the rule):

"Tu ne te prends vraiment pas pour de la merde!" - you have a high opinion about yourself (you really don't consider yourself to be sh!t)

"Die Friedhöfe sind voll mit unersetzlichen Leuten" - The graveyeards are full of irreplaceable people.
Thanks Faltrad for translating.

Paysdoufs, it never takes long in this country to let others know they mean nothing. I wonder why, such a national sport. What's the allergy to self assured people? It's not always a phoney thing, some people just have clear opinion about stuff. I personally do think it is a wonderful thing to integrate, but why make it such a quest. Isn't anyone normally really geared to integrate? Why make it an obligatory thing, something pushed on people by locals and check it by some committee, since they feel like they are "allowing" the guests to stay...When locals get measured for integration within the society, it will be only fair to do so with newcomers, but until then, it's a little naieve. People either feel embraced, welcomed, get treated as a part of community, or they don't. If we are asked for monetarily contribution while get treated as is we were just guests who need to do more than locals themselves to prove ourselves and our genuine intentions, makes no sense...To force somebody, based on some lofty and really unmeasurable thing as language aptitude which varies from one person to another, it's just pointless. Some people are a part of community, pay huge taxes and contribute in other ways without B1-B2 skills, some locals have native command and are part of nada. Swiss themselves don't want to belong, innit, by principle, so why make this such a procedure with other people just because we are not ready to vacuum some sidewalks and accept stiff ceremonial ways and get pushed around. So what is this "them" and "us" thing about...just a complex. Ok. Rant over.

Oops, I forgot, I wouldn't ever criticize people here for how well they speak English. Far better than anywhere I remember. Maybe as well as in Germany.
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