English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/10275-security-creation-initiative-aka-svp-black-sheep-grabbing-hands-posters.html)

terryhall 05.09.2007 16:28

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
^ that's the way that I read it, too.

I only just realised today from reading some of these links to articles elsewhere that the SVP are one of the largest parties in Switzerland :msnshock: - and this is expected to increase their vote still further?!

Yours concernedly, etc etc....

dennis_ay 05.09.2007 16:35

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chemgoddess (Post 100884)
From what I understood from the numbers reported in the link I referenced in post #82 they state that foreigners are 4 times more likely than Swiss nationals to be "convicted" of a crime. Basically to me, that means is that if you are a foreigner and you commit a crime you are 4 times as likely to go to jail/be convicted as a Swiss person who commits a crime.

Stick to Chemistry.

chemgoddess 05.09.2007 16:44

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Okay, being that I obviously don't understand anything other than science.:rolleyes:

Would you be so kind as to explain to me what exactly it means than? Remember use small words and simple sentences as I tend to be a bit slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis_ay (Post 100891)
Stick to Chemistry.


owls_79 05.09.2007 17:07

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Moving back on topic..... Did anyone see the articles in 20 minuten etc about the 'Zottel' game? As far as i can understand (my german is not so good) you take control of a swiss goat and have to kick all the black sheep across the border :eek: hmm, that's obviously not aimed at kids, get them while they're young and impressionable:rolleyes:

Blonaybear 05.09.2007 17:16

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by owls_79 (Post 100908)
Moving back on topic..... Did anyone see the articles in 20 minuten etc about the 'Zottel' game? As far as i can understand (my german is not so good) you take control of a swiss goat and have to kick all the black sheep across the border :eek: hmm, that's obviously not aimed at kids, get them while they're young and impressionable:rolleyes:

Its here in German or French.

Nairda 05.09.2007 20:02

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Scary.
Hopefully they'll be a hacked version kicking Blocher out :p.

Polorise 06.09.2007 08:56

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Picked this up in the French edition of 20 Minuten on the train yesterday : Blocher président? Urs Schwaller s'y oppose

Fair argument je pense ..

cobenz 06.09.2007 13:28

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonaybear (Post 94172)
When a serious crime is reported here the nationality of the transgressor is mentioned and when you see that the majority of, for example, drug traffickers are foreigners with permits it’s bound to have an effect.

So drug trafficking is a crime here but offering legal drugs to teenagers and white collared bankers through hospitals and health centres is not ? It appears to me that one would go to great lengths here to reform errant teens but not hesitate to prosecute a foreigner who is feeding a family of 4 ?

Rich 06.09.2007 13:44

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6980766.stm

this campaign starting to get quite a lot of attention from outside Ch now.

simon3717 06.09.2007 14:02

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
and rightly so - when my friends from the UK came over to visit and saw this they were pretty stunned at how blatant this poster was

Uncle Max 06.09.2007 16:29

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
The Hiltl chain of vegetarian restaurants are famous for using vegetables in place of meat products in their advertising - eg, a carrot in a Hot Dog bun.

In the light of the Zottel campaign, (who's meant to be a goat kicking out the black sheep), they've developed the following:

http://www.steinis.ch/wp-content/upl.../09/zottel.jpg

(Trans: On this one occasion we're willing to offer meat on our menu: the Zottel spit roast)

Yea for Hiltl!

Source: http://www.persoenlich.com/news/show...m?newsid=70210

Nairda 07.09.2007 01:36

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/multime...07_254705a.jpg

This story takes up the entire front page of Friday's Independent newspaper (in the UK) and has been reviewed on many of this evening's TV news programmes - and not favourably.

Against a large Swiss flag, the headline reads:
Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become... EUROPE'S HEART OF DARKNESS?

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

GVA offline 07.09.2007 07:31

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nairda (Post 101518)
http://www.independent.co.uk/multime...07_254705a.jpg

This story takes up the entire front page of Friday's Independent newspaper (in the UK) and has been reviewed on many of this evening's TV news programmes - and not favourably.

Against a large Swiss flag, the headline reads:
Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become... EUROPE'S HEART OF DARKNESS?

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece



HAHAHAH that's priceless lolololololz

Simon 07.09.2007 10:45

Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?
 
The Independent's take on the SVP...

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally"

vwlarson 07.09.2007 11:00

Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon (Post 101571)
The Independent's take on the SVP...

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally"


Simon...
interesting article....

do we really think a law like this will be past!? First, it is just a campaign to collect the signatures at the moment...wait a couple years...then referendum...wait some more...then maybe, if majority (i highly doubt it) it may come into practice...

let's see what happens....

Rahul 07.09.2007 11:19

Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?
 
It is really disgusting to witness these actions which are tantamount to what were practised in Nazi Germany. If the SVP has its way, it might as well sentence foreigners to concentration camps. The recent spike in extreme right wing crime is only compounded by such posters/referendums.
Although the minority of the intellectuals in this country very well realise the worth which migrant communities bring in the economy, the majority of the dumb masses unexceptionally succumb to these fear gimmicks.

I have just three words to say Shame, shame & shame.

Richard 07.09.2007 11:32

Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahul (Post 101595)
It is really disgusting to witness these actions which are tantamount to what were practised in Nazi Germany. If the SVP has its way, it might as well sentence foreigners to concentration camps. The recent spike in extreme right wing crime is only compounded by such posters/referendums.
Although the minority of the intellectuals in this country very well realise the worth which migrant communities bring in the economy, the majority of the dumb masses unexceptionally succumb to these fear gimmicks.

I have just three words to say Shame, shame & shame.

As always things get in the media and get overplayed. Lets paint Switzerland as a Nazi Germany of the future etc etc.

Deserved yes and just lets hope it does not mean that countries start campaigns to ban Swiss goods and services.

What is the primary message though? If a person commits a serious offence deport them when the sentence is finished. So is that so bad? And even if you think it is check the law in most other countries, probably also yours - you will find they too have this law! And just to make doubly sure it does depend on the definition of serious. Murder, rape, treason, robbery are serious, burglary not.

The problem with this campaign is twofold:
1. The declaration of guilt for the rest of the family. That is not just a problem, but entirely unacceptable and against the principles of human rights. And anyway probably unenforceable.
2. The disgraceful and racist campaign of posters which would lead to court cases for those responsible in most other countries...

The Laundry Man 07.09.2007 11:46

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Anyone seen the front page leader of the Independent today?

http://www.independent.co.uk/

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally."

Makes yer feel proud to be here, don't it?

I expect there's some folk in this 'paradise' are getting all nostalgic right now too................

My motto is: fight them from within: they need all the educated white boys and girls from around the world to keep their economy on top and so it's up to those that are here to keep questioning, confronting and challenging this kind of bullcrap wherever you see it and don't back down if they give it the "none of your business, you're not swiss" line.........:msnmad:

Blonaybear 07.09.2007 13:52

Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?
 
Can someone explain where the idea of deporting familys has come from as there does not appear to be any wording in the actual initiative which would permit this.

Blonaybear 07.09.2007 14:12

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
The same story was in The Scotsman but this has a selection of readers comments which make interesting reading.

There was a discussion on TSR1 with Christopher Blocker which you can find here (in French).

Where does it say, in the actual wording of the initiative, anything about whole families being deported ?


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:55.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0