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  #181  
Old 05.09.2007, 15:28
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

^ that's the way that I read it, too.

I only just realised today from reading some of these links to articles elsewhere that the SVP are one of the largest parties in Switzerland - and this is expected to increase their vote still further?!

Yours concernedly, etc etc....
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  #182  
Old 05.09.2007, 15:35
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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From what I understood from the numbers reported in the link I referenced in post #82 they state that foreigners are 4 times more likely than Swiss nationals to be "convicted" of a crime. Basically to me, that means is that if you are a foreigner and you commit a crime you are 4 times as likely to go to jail/be convicted as a Swiss person who commits a crime.
Stick to Chemistry.
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  #183  
Old 05.09.2007, 15:44
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Okay, being that I obviously don't understand anything other than science.

Would you be so kind as to explain to me what exactly it means than? Remember use small words and simple sentences as I tend to be a bit slow.

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Stick to Chemistry.
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  #184  
Old 05.09.2007, 16:07
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Moving back on topic..... Did anyone see the articles in 20 minuten etc about the 'Zottel' game? As far as i can understand (my german is not so good) you take control of a swiss goat and have to kick all the black sheep across the border hmm, that's obviously not aimed at kids, get them while they're young and impressionable
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  #185  
Old 05.09.2007, 16:16
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Moving back on topic..... Did anyone see the articles in 20 minuten etc about the 'Zottel' game? As far as i can understand (my german is not so good) you take control of a swiss goat and have to kick all the black sheep across the border hmm, that's obviously not aimed at kids, get them while they're young and impressionable
Its here in German or French.
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  #186  
Old 05.09.2007, 19:02
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Scary.
Hopefully they'll be a hacked version kicking Blocher out .
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  #187  
Old 06.09.2007, 07:56
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Picked this up in the French edition of 20 Minuten on the train yesterday : Blocher président? Urs Schwaller s'y oppose

Fair argument je pense ..
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  #188  
Old 06.09.2007, 12:28
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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When a serious crime is reported here the nationality of the transgressor is mentioned and when you see that the majority of, for example, drug traffickers are foreigners with permits it’s bound to have an effect.
So drug trafficking is a crime here but offering legal drugs to teenagers and white collared bankers through hospitals and health centres is not ? It appears to me that one would go to great lengths here to reform errant teens but not hesitate to prosecute a foreigner who is feeding a family of 4 ?
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  #189  
Old 06.09.2007, 12:44
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6980766.stm

this campaign starting to get quite a lot of attention from outside Ch now.
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  #190  
Old 06.09.2007, 13:02
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

and rightly so - when my friends from the UK came over to visit and saw this they were pretty stunned at how blatant this poster was
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  #191  
Old 06.09.2007, 15:29
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

The Hiltl chain of vegetarian restaurants are famous for using vegetables in place of meat products in their advertising - eg, a carrot in a Hot Dog bun.

In the light of the Zottel campaign, (who's meant to be a goat kicking out the black sheep), they've developed the following:



(Trans: On this one occasion we're willing to offer meat on our menu: the Zottel spit roast)

Yea for Hiltl!

Source: http://www.persoenlich.com/news/show...m?newsid=70210

Last edited by Uncle Max; 06.09.2007 at 15:32. Reason: Added source
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  #192  
Old 07.09.2007, 00:36
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Re: Security Creation Initiative



This story takes up the entire front page of Friday's Independent newspaper (in the UK) and has been reviewed on many of this evening's TV news programmes - and not favourably.

Against a large Swiss flag, the headline reads:
Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become... EUROPE'S HEART OF DARKNESS?

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

Last edited by Nairda; 07.09.2007 at 01:31. Reason: Add links.
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  #193  
Old 07.09.2007, 06:31
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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This story takes up the entire front page of Friday's Independent newspaper (in the UK) and has been reviewed on many of this evening's TV news programmes - and not favourably.

Against a large Swiss flag, the headline reads:
Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become... EUROPE'S HEART OF DARKNESS?

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece


HAHAHAH that's priceless lolololololz
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  #194  
Old 07.09.2007, 09:45
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Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

The Independent's take on the SVP...

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally"
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  #195  
Old 07.09.2007, 10:00
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Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

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The Independent's take on the SVP...

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally"

Simon...
interesting article....

do we really think a law like this will be past!? First, it is just a campaign to collect the signatures at the moment...wait a couple years...then referendum...wait some more...then maybe, if majority (i highly doubt it) it may come into practice...

let's see what happens....
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  #196  
Old 07.09.2007, 10:19
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Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

It is really disgusting to witness these actions which are tantamount to what were practised in Nazi Germany. If the SVP has its way, it might as well sentence foreigners to concentration camps. The recent spike in extreme right wing crime is only compounded by such posters/referendums.
Although the minority of the intellectuals in this country very well realise the worth which migrant communities bring in the economy, the majority of the dumb masses unexceptionally succumb to these fear gimmicks.

I have just three words to say Shame, shame & shame.
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  #197  
Old 07.09.2007, 10:32
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Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

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It is really disgusting to witness these actions which are tantamount to what were practised in Nazi Germany. If the SVP has its way, it might as well sentence foreigners to concentration camps. The recent spike in extreme right wing crime is only compounded by such posters/referendums.
Although the minority of the intellectuals in this country very well realise the worth which migrant communities bring in the economy, the majority of the dumb masses unexceptionally succumb to these fear gimmicks.

I have just three words to say Shame, shame & shame.
As always things get in the media and get overplayed. Lets paint Switzerland as a Nazi Germany of the future etc etc.

Deserved yes and just lets hope it does not mean that countries start campaigns to ban Swiss goods and services.

What is the primary message though? If a person commits a serious offence deport them when the sentence is finished. So is that so bad? And even if you think it is check the law in most other countries, probably also yours - you will find they too have this law! And just to make doubly sure it does depend on the definition of serious. Murder, rape, treason, robbery are serious, burglary not.

The problem with this campaign is twofold:
1. The declaration of guilt for the rest of the family. That is not just a problem, but entirely unacceptable and against the principles of human rights. And anyway probably unenforceable.
2. The disgraceful and racist campaign of posters which would lead to court cases for those responsible in most other countries...
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  #198  
Old 07.09.2007, 10:46
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Anyone seen the front page leader of the Independent today?

http://www.independent.co.uk/

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally."

Makes yer feel proud to be here, don't it?

I expect there's some folk in this 'paradise' are getting all nostalgic right now too................

My motto is: fight them from within: they need all the educated white boys and girls from around the world to keep their economy on top and so it's up to those that are here to keep questioning, confronting and challenging this kind of bullcrap wherever you see it and don't back down if they give it the "none of your business, you're not swiss" line.........
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  #199  
Old 07.09.2007, 12:52
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Re: Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

Can someone explain where the idea of deporting familys has come from as there does not appear to be any wording in the actual initiative which would permit this.
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  #200  
Old 07.09.2007, 13:12
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

The same story was in The Scotsman but this has a selection of readers comments which make interesting reading.

There was a discussion on TSR1 with Christopher Blocker which you can find here (in French).

Where does it say, in the actual wording of the initiative, anything about whole families being deported ?
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