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-   -   Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/10275-security-creation-initiative-aka-svp-black-sheep-grabbing-hands-posters.html)

Verena Scherer 09.10.2007 02:08

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
From Wikipedia:

Population growth rate
During the 19th and 20th centuries, population growth rate has been at 0.7% to 0.8%, with a doubling time of ca. 90 years. In the later 20th century, the growth rate has fallen below 0.7% (1980s: 0.64%; 1990s: 0.65%), and in the 2000s it has risen again slightly (2000–2006: 0.69%), mostly due to immigration.

I'm not much good at interpreting statistics but 0.69% in 6 years most but no all due to immigration. So this is bad pra ctice buit if I double this then almost 1.4% in 12 years. In most countries in 10 years most have nationality of the host country. So where does 20% come from?

tigerli 09.10.2007 02:29

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verena Scherer (Post 113886)
So where does 20% come from?

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/etc/medialib...-2006_12_e.pdf

Note that approx. 70% of the foreigners hold a C permit which means they have been living here for at least 5-10 years (depending on country of origin).

Verena Scherer 09.10.2007 02:36

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 


To Nathu

EU, Swiss Make No Progress On Tax Row, Pledge To Keep Talking

Tue, Oct 2 2007, 14:15 GMT
http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-n...1-41adf3b2f69e
The tax row is ongoing. Ms. Calmy Rey seems to be negotiating well, I wonder how Blocher would handle it?
You said to spare the rhetoric? Rhetoric- dictionary definition- the art of effective speaking or writing- gee thanks! I'm just practising.
The Jewish WWII accounts got so much coverage in the US because of the racist/ holocaust implication. Some are making a similar case now by saying that the Switzerland may not have been a colonial power but is neocolonial in that it harbours the ill-gotten gains of un-democratic governments. Of course it's mostly about undermining the baking system as far as the financial instituions are concerned, but whatever gives the competition and edge or loophole they will use.
I don't see China as a beacon of democracy and would never put Swiss and Chinese democracy in the same boat.
It seems to be missing form your post now-edited out? but you suggested that:
A click on Blonaybear's links and some own research would be advisable.

OK I'll do that, I'm here to learn! Like I said I'm a novice in politics.

Verena Scherer 09.10.2007 02:45

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 113890)
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/etc/medialib...-2006_12_e.pdf

Note that approx. 70% of the foreigners hold a C permit which means they have been living here for at least 5-10 years (depending on country of origin).

Thanks but I can't do the math, yep I'm blonde. I would assume that 2/3rds of the 'foreigners' are pretty much integrated. This means that 1/3rd of 20% (whatever that is) are integrating foreigners. How does that compare to countries like the UK or US?

Verena Scherer 09.10.2007 03:51

Re: Security Creation Initiative
 
Dear Nathu was this the kind of link you mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonaybear (Post 86869)
I remember that one.
Also remember Enoch Powell MP who warned that if the UK did not stem the flow of immigrants the streets would flow with blood. He had to resign because of his comments and we didn't do anything about immigration and the streets did flow with blood (Brixton riots etc etc).


Verena Scherer 09.10.2007 04:39

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathu (Post 113883)
:confused:

Villiger isn't a member of the Swiss federal council anymore since 2004, around then Bolkestein ceased to be an EU commissioner. Two years earlier the EU initiated the discussion about the Swiss "tax haven", promoted by the tax hell members (Germany, France, ...) and members that are affiliated to competing financial centers (GB). A few European countries like Luxembourg had financial systems similar to Switzerland and thus supported its position. The conflict ended in 2004 without the EU imposing sanctions.

The WWII accounts issue was a different matter that only involved the USA and Switzerland earlier in 1996-97. How do you connect the dots between these two issues and the racism accusations against the SVP?


The president of the federal council changes every year and gains mainly representative responsabilities. And you know the beacon of democracy who will host next year's olympics so please spare me your rhetorics.

Dear Nathu,
Took your suggestion.
Couldn't find your links but did look at you posts- if ever want to know about the police I'll ask you first! Very informative.

cricketer 09.10.2007 23:24

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
what i dont understand is that Blocher who wants to return to an isolationist Switzerland for the Swiss bla bla bla owns a chemical company EMS Chemie . Today it was announced they have bought an interest in an American company with 3 factories in the US with 150 people and a multimillion dollar sales value. together with his interests in China it makes me wonder? if he wants an isolationist Switzerland why the f*** does he have overseas profit centres for his company??

Blonaybear 09.10.2007 23:40

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cricketer (Post 114329)
what i dont understand is that Blocher who wants to return to an isolationist Switzerland for the Swiss bla bla bla owns a chemical company EMS Chemie . Today it was announced they have bought an interest in an American company with 3 factories in the US with 150 people and a multimillion dollar sales value. together with his interests in China it makes me wonder? if he wants an isolationist Switzerland why the f*** does he have overseas profit centres for his company??

Blocher has been in Swiss Romande several times and quite clearly stated that he acknowledges the contribution that foreign workers make to the Swiss economy and has no problem with them. What he does have a problem with is foreigners who come here to run drug rings, people trafficking etc.

Blocher sold his shares in EMS-Chimie to his family when he became a federal councillor. He was also a major share holder in the UBS and had served as a director for another bank in the past.

born2run 09.10.2007 23:48

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Blocher is a typical politician who is using immigration as a wedge issue. He is a wealthy arrogant manipulative prick who is trying to position himself as a populist in order to get electoral support from people who would generally scorn him.

Immigrants are a safe target because they are unable to vote. This is not terribly unique, politicians in france, germany, uk, canada, us, and australia have used immigration as an issue in elections. however, economic imperiatives almost always trump bigotry and Blochead knows this and will have to deal with this reality.

to be honest, the swiss are not all that different than most other countries, they are apprehensive about global integration and they know that their sweet little world is changing. bottom line, every population distribution includes losers. on the other hand, many, many swissies are quite cool and accepting of immigrants - they are the future, and they should be the focus of this discussion (not this thread per se).

cricketer 10.10.2007 22:15

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonaybear (Post 114340)
Blocher has been in Swiss Romande several times and quite clearly stated that he acknowledges the contribution that foreign workers make to the Swiss economy and has no problem with them. What he does have a problem with is foreigners who come here to run drug rings, people trafficking etc.

Blocher sold his shares in EMS-Chimie to his family when he became a federal councillor. He was also a major share holder in the UBS and had served as a director for another bank in the past.


oh ! he sold his interest to his family. well i guess that's all right then.

Verena Scherer 10.10.2007 22:47

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
http://www.africalink.ch/dsp_alink_n...il.php?name=69
21:26 10th 2007f Oct 07

In brief this report says:
Last year, Swiss Minister of Justice, Mr. Christoph Blocher, drew protests from the African community when he was reported to have disparagingly described Africans as “lazy”.
We understand that the total population of Swiss people living in Africa as at December 2006 was 18,380, out of which 8,821, about 48% are in SA.
The statistics for last year show a healthy balance in trade between SA and Switzerland in favour of your country; CHF 1,261.7 million to CHF 729.5 million.
Blocher was also president of the president of the Working Group on Southern Africa, Christoph Blocher was president of the Working Group on South Africa duting the time of the aprtheid crackdown. http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/histor...ss_embargo.htm The efforts of ComOps operations in Switzerland exerted pressure on television, radio, and the print media as well as participation in sporting events – especially military-related contests such as the international two-day march in Berne.......The Swiss Federal Police and other investigative agencies received strong evidence of crimes and broken sanctions, but shrunk back taking legal action on the information out of consideration for the South African government and its prominent friends in Switzerland. In the case of a well known armaments firm in eastern Switzerland that entered major gun-running deals with South Africa, the federal police were content to urge that the firm´s top management remove a rather unsuited project coworker from this operation and take care that the gun-running be handled more discreetly.

Now Blocher is a billionaire.

How about a poster with white hands stealing from the South African pot of gold, diamonds etc.? For some the blacks will never work hard enough.

And what may I ask did the ordinary Swiss benefit? I didn't see the money flowing into my bank account.

Nairda 14.10.2007 12:26

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Very balanced interview and article in today's Observer about the SVP/UDC, its campaign style and Blocher's populist takeover of the party.

Quote:

In his party's headquarters in a pretty residential suburb of Bern, journalists are now greeted with a mixture of suspicion and a gauche unawareness that what is pinned up on the walls may not best help it dissociate itself from accusations of xenophobia. One party worker smilingly comments on flyers showing a minaret and an old Islamic woman in a burqa with the caption: 'Baaden oder Baghdad?'. 'One of our party members came up with that,' says the young man enthusiastically. There is a photocopied sheet pinned next to it that he does not comment on, depicting cartoons of a dozen or so racial stereotypes, including the 'Juden', depicted by a big-nosed Jew.
Quote:

For all the UDC's complaints of being misrepresented, it is the party's own campaign material that has invited opprobrium.
Quote:

Suspicion of Blocher has been heightened by his way of doing politics - even within the UDC. His opponents, including some within the party, say that the former head of the EMS-Chemie chemicals plant has used his Zurich-based faction to take over an organisation that was once the dull party of small business and farmers and transform it into the brash, populist thing that it is now.

t2roc 14.10.2007 14:47

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
"I am disappointed that the SVP have not lost a lot of their support after their racist election campaign."

Whats even more frightening is they´ve actually gained support according to opinion polls, (from 20 minutes yesterday.)Thats the really pathetic thing . Even with all the controversy the swiss it would seem arent even smart enough to see through it as being deplorable.
It would seem that the SVP are actually intelligent. They know just which buttons to push to stir up fear in the public. Just as pathetic as the fact that Jim Crow politics still works in US.
My version of the black sheep poster has the white sheep wearing white KKK hoods. But ironically they are absolutely right on the money to use the sheep metaphor for the swiss. But on the bright side this has provoked some Africans to run for Bundesrat see:
www.das-schwarze-schaf.ch

Its also getting the swiss bad international press: http://www.kommunikationsblog.ch/blog/147/
cheers Michel

GVA offline 14.10.2007 16:35

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by t2roc (Post 115952)
"I am disappointed that the SVP have not lost a lot of their support after their racist election campaign."

Whats even more frightening is they´ve actually gained support according to opinion polls, (from 20 minutes yesterday.)Thats the really pathetic thing . Even with all the controversy the swiss it would seem arent even smart enough to see through it as being deplorable.
It would seem that the SVP are actually intelligent. They know just which buttons to push to stir up fear in the public. Just as pathetic as the fact that Jim Crow politics still works in US.
My version of the black sheep poster has the white sheep wearing white KKK hoods. But ironically they are absolutely right on the money to use the sheep metaphor for the swiss. But on the bright side this has provoked some Africans to run for Bundesrat see:
www.das-schwarze-schaf.ch

Its also getting the swiss bad international press: http://www.kommunikationsblog.ch/blog/147/
cheers Michel

you really expected the controversy to hurt the SVP ?

lets see, anti-SVP campaigrners spent the last two moth drawing up posters of black sheeps (foreign rapist/murderers in the original context) being huged and kissed.

surprise result: SVP up, Socialists down (according to the latest survey)

The SVP are clearly more inteligent (politicaly at least) than most of their opponents who don't even understand that extremist parties benefit from a polarization of the debate.

The whole controversy is a more of an advertisement for racial hatred than the original poster ever was. The only decent way to react was not to react at all (which is what most swis people did at first). But then the super-smart thinker had to have their way :msnsad:

Verena Scherer 14.10.2007 18:00

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The sheep are getting a really bad rap, I didn't know that sheep raped and murdered, but then I'm not a farmer. Are black wool sheep less cuddly that white? I wouldn't cuddle a goat, maybe the little ones. I saw a heavily pregnant goat in my village all the other greedy goats were butting her out of the food.

Telling people that the intelligent response is not to react can be an effective form of brainwashing. Or it can be a form of self-preservation- the silent witness. I don't agree with physical reactions in the form of violence, but not to express opinion to express our opinions? So on this forum what do we all do- not react to each other, talk about the weather? So why are you responding surely you are only adding to the debate?

so GVA why not take your own advice:

The only decent way to react was not to react at all (which is what most swis people did at first). But then the super-smart thinker had to have their way

GVA offline 14.10.2007 19:47

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
You could have ignored the poster for the sake of decency. Instead you spent the last three weeks actively promoting the view that black people are the black sheeps of our society, but that no one should be allowed to portray it. Essentialy, promoting all the things you were pretending to fight.

that irony is (I think) worth reacting to.

Verena Scherer 14.10.2007 21:52

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
So GVA do you want to tell the rest of the world to please look the other way out of decency?
I've been talking to others today across the US, left and right in politics, their view, formed from what they read in the press, has changed the Swiss image from being a cultured country to a Springtime in Germany joke as the following article shows:

http://www.genevalunch.com/genevalun...ial-udcs-.html

Le Temps associate editor François Modoux told GenevaLunch that he believes this election could well drive Switzerland in a new direction, where one party becomes sufficiently powerful to bring consensus politics (power sharing) to an end. The problem, he notes, is that the party pushing the change to the system, the UDC, is not sharing its programme for a new system, if it has one......
The power of the UDC in Swiss politics should not be overlooked, but the reasons for it are not receiving adequate attention, certainly not outside Switzerland, because racism makes better headlines. Last week in New York at a dinner party with well-educated and well-travelled Americans I argued that reducing Switzerland's role and neutrality in the second world war to "a deal done with the Germans" was grossly simplistic, but my arguments did not hold the same power as a public television documentary currently being aired. Reductionist history or current affairs is easier to consume

It is quite embarrasing. Even Bush wouldn't dare to raise the posters that the SVP do- unintelligent as he is, he has to be more discrete than the Swiss Right.

AbFab 14.10.2007 22:18

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verena Scherer (Post 116088)
So GVA do you want to tell the rest of the world to please look the other way out of decency?
I've been talking to others today across the US, left and right in politics, their view, formed from what they read in the press, has changed the Swiss image from being a cultured country to a Springtime in Germany joke as the following article shows:

http://www.genevalunch.com/genevalun...ial-udcs-.html

Le Temps associate editor François Modoux told GenevaLunch that he believes this election could well drive Switzerland in a new direction, where one party becomes sufficiently powerful to bring consensus politics (power sharing) to an end. The problem, he notes, is that the party pushing the change to the system, the UDC, is not sharing its programme for a new system, if it has one......
The power of the UDC in Swiss politics should not be overlooked, but the reasons for it are not receiving adequate attention, certainly not outside Switzerland, because racism makes better headlines. Last week in New York at a dinner party with well-educated and well-travelled Americans I argued that reducing Switzerland's role and neutrality in the second world war to "a deal done with the Germans" was grossly simplistic, but my arguments did not hold the same power as a public television documentary currently being aired. Reductionist history or current affairs is easier to consume

It is quite embarrasing. Even Bush wouldn't dare to raise the posters that the SVP do- unintelligent as he is, he has to be more discrete than the Swiss Right.

So there are those in the USA who actually know where and what Switzerland is? I have met many who have no idea of either.

Likewise, when was Switzerland ever reported abroad in a positive light? It is a great media story whenever perfect Switzerland (wherever it may be) falls from perceived grace...

Verena Scherer 15.10.2007 00:36

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
[QUOTE]
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 116101)
So there are those in the USA who actually know where and what Switzerland is? I have met many who have no idea of either.

Like the Swiss police said to me maybe " you just met the wrong people"

Quote:

Likewise, when was Switzerland ever reported abroad in a positive light? It is a great media story whenever perfect Switzerland (wherever it may be) falls from perceived grace...
Yep, they are lapping Blocher/SVP up and the chainsaw story - however did they hear that? However Switzerland was until recently seen in a very favourable light. I wish that I could take the critics to my village and show them a slice of idyllic Swiss life. However if the extreme right get in then what response can I give?

harshapaulraj 15.10.2007 00:44

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 113875)
On the one hand, I am disappointed that the SVP have not lost a lot of their support after their racist election campaign. On the other hand 74% of the Swiss are not voting for the SVP which means their power is limited. Blocher is also held in check by the other 6 members of the Bundesrat. His existance is therefore unlikely to have an influence on decisions made by International Olympic Committee (based in Lausanne). I hope the delicate balance of the Swiss political system will remain and that many international organisations will feel comfortable to stay here for many years to come.

I think we should change the 74% to 50%: one post on this forum had a chart showing party preferences of people across professions. I noticed that SVP and SD had a total of at least 50% in all categories. The SD is just as aggressive as the SVP when it comes to foreigners. SD I assume are the Schweizer Demokraten. Let me know if I've got this wrong.

tigerli 15.10.2007 10:59

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harshapaulraj (Post 116127)
I think we should change the 74% to 50%: one post on this forum had a chart showing party preferences of people across professions. I noticed that SVP and SD had a total of at least 50% in all categories. The SD is just as aggressive as the SVP when it comes to foreigners. SD I assume are the Schweizer Demokraten. Let me know if I've got this wrong.

I'm afraid you have got things wrong. I don't know who you mean by SD, but the SP (Social-democratic Party) are the 2nd largest party and are totally opposed to the SVP's anti foreigner campaign. This link shows the estimated strengths of the parties:

http://sf.epb.prokons.com/?markt=CH-2007-NR

No two parties add up to a majority.

Nathu 15.10.2007 11:38

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The SD (Swiss Democrats) are an anti-immigration party. The SVP's rise partly happened at their cost. On the national level, they currently hold one seat in the big chamber of parliament (out of 200 seats) and none in the small (of 52). Their nation-wide voter support is about 1%.

tigerli 15.10.2007 12:43

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
So where does it suggest that SVP + SD have 50% of the vote ?

Nathu 15.10.2007 12:56

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Nobody did, harshapaulraj just confused the Swiss Democrats and the Social Democrats.

tigerli 15.10.2007 14:37

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Interesting to note that one of the UK's most right wing newpapers is hardly sympathetic towards the current extremes of Swiss politics..

=Swiss election sparks riots and racism=


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wswiss113.xml

Verena Scherer 15.10.2007 14:56

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
BBC world today announced that CH is at the bottom end of the pile along with Latvia etc. when it comes to integration of foreigners
http://www.integrationindex.eu/integ...ndex/2616.html
Switzerland lacks a dedicated anti-discrimination law. The definitions of anti-discrimination cover religion/belief and race/ethnicity but not nationality. Only a limited number of actors can be punished for discriminating, leaving many outside the law. Moreover, anti-discrimination laws do not apply in any of the fields of life measured by MIPEX, a critical weakness for Switzerland. Enforcement mechanisms score exactly halfway to best practice. They have access to various procedures and a wide range of possible penalties for guilty parties. Yet it is evident that complainants who bring forward a case are not protected from victimisation in the many fields of life. They also do not benefit from legal aid or shifts in the burden of proof. Equality policies keep the specialised equality agency out of the courtroom by limiting its powers to advising victims or investigating their cases.

Guest 15.10.2007 15:37

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The BBC is still on the case....

dave

tigerli 15.10.2007 18:20

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The state prosecutors in Kt. Zürich have dropped the legal action against the black sheep posters on the grounds that they are not racially discriminating, simply anti-foreigner.

http://tages-anzeiger.ch/dyn/news/schweiz/802759.html

So it's legal to hate foreigners, as long as you hate them all, equally :mad:.

Guest 15.10.2007 18:22

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
“I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.” - WC Fields

Frank Zappa is also credited with the same quote.

dave


Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 116499)
The state prosecutors in Kt. Zürich have dropped the legal action against the black sheep posters on the grounds that they are not racially discriminating, simply anti-foreigner.

http://tages-anzeiger.ch/dyn/news/schweiz/802759.html

So it's legal to hate foreigners, as long as you hate them all, equally :mad:.


Blonaybear 15.10.2007 21:22

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
From todays Swissinfo, this.

15.10.2007 21:31

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 116349)
Interesting to note that one of the UK's most right wing newpapers is hardly sympathetic towards the current extremes of Swiss politics..

Nope, the Daily Telegraph is no way "one of the UK's most right wing newspapers". Try the Dailyl Mail or Express if that is what you want. Both of those make me want to puke.

Is anyone else here getting sick of the Swiss bashing?

Personally speaking, I found that by coming here I could escape from the preconceptions, prejudices and generally parochial attitudes I found in the UK.

tigerli 15.10.2007 23:26

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC (Post 116573)
Nope, the Daily Telegraph is no way "one of the UK's most right wing newspapers". Try the Daily Mail or Express if that is what you want. Both of those make me want to puke.

If the Telegraph, traditionally known as the house newspaper of the Conservative party, is not considered to be right wing then I don't know what is. My point was that the right wing in Britain has little sympathy with the extreme politics (right & left wing) that we are witnessing here.

Quote:

Is anyone else here getting sick of the Swiss bashing?
I'm also sad about the mauling that Switzerland is getting in the foreign press. It's just the extreme factions, both right and left which are hitting the headlines. It does tend to dent the image of Switzerland and the party that is the primary cause of all this doesn't seem to care about that.....

Quote:

At the news conference, Ueli Maurer, president of the People's Party, refused to answer questions posed by a foreign journalist.

"I don't give interviews to foreign journalists; I want to win the elections in Switzerland," he said.
Incidentally here's the latest from the BBC, who try to be neutral...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3206778.stm


Quote:

Personally speaking, I found that by coming here I could escape from the preconceptions, prejudices and generally parochial attitudes I found in the UK.
I'm sure you must know that there are few places on this earth where you can escape from such attitudes, and Switzerland isn't one of them.

Unfortunately, the xenophobia will not stop after the election, because this "Security Creation Initiative" will then be submitted for a referendum.

Colonelboris 15.10.2007 23:46

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 116653)
If the Telegraph, traditionally known as the house newspaper of the Conservative party, is not considered to be right wing then I don't know what is. My point was that the right wing in Britain has little sympathy with the extreme politics (right & left wing) that we are witnessing here.

Not for a while. They used to be the Daily Torygraph, but here's a quote from the latest issue of Private Eye:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Eye - I hope you appreciate me typing this out...
Gordon Brown's courtship of Daily Telegraph editor Will Lewis has been relentless - and seems to have worked. Brown, no doubt posing as the "force for change", encouraged his new best friend Will to jettison the Torygraph's team of lobby hacks. "I don't trust any of them, they're either Tories or Blairites," he explained.
It is no doubt mere coincidence that in the past few weeks there has been a complete clearout of the Telegraph political stable, with veteran political editor George Jones leaving the paper, his deputy Toby Helm (brother-in-law of Blair aide Jonathon Powell) being found another job, number three reporter Graeme Wilson fleeing to the Sun and Brendan Carlin finding political asylum at the Mail on Sunday.


tigerli 16.10.2007 00:10

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Well I never ! So Gordon Brown's recent courtships include the Daily Telegraph and Margaret Thatcher. Does this turn Cameron red ?

Colonelboris 16.10.2007 00:22

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
I know - you can't trust anyone any more...

16.10.2007 08:24

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 116653)
If the Telegraph, traditionally known as the house newspaper of the Conservative party, is not considered to be right wing then I don't know what is. My point was that the right wing in Britain has little sympathy with the extreme politics (right & left wing) that we are witnessing here.

But you used the phrase "most right wng".

Quote:

Incidentally here's the latest from the BBC, who try to be neutral...
The BBC can try to be as neutral as they will have their audience believe, but they have consistently failed to be so since the mid 1990s when they had a clear out of some of their best political correspondents.

The one thing that seemed totally out of kilter with the normal standard of Telegraph articles was the gratuitous mention of rubber bullets, implying that they had been used the other weekend. Biased reporting or what?, and my BS filter kicked in big time.

16.10.2007 08:41

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonelboris (Post 116662)
Not for a while. They used to be the Daily Torygraph, but here's a quote from the latest issue of Private Eye:

Quote:

Quote:
Private Eye - I hope you appreciate me typing this out...

Gordon Brown's courtship of Daily Telegraph editor Will Lewis has been relentless - and seems to have worked. Brown, no doubt posing as the "force for change", encouraged his new best friend Will to jettison the Torygraph's team of lobby hacks. "I don't trust any of them, they're either Tories or Blairites," he explained.
It is no doubt mere coincidence that in the past few weeks there has been a complete clearout of the Telegraph political stable, with veteran political editor George Jones leaving the paper, his deputy Toby Helm (brother-in-law of Blair aide Jonathon Powell) being found another job, number three reporter Graeme Wilson fleeing to the Sun and Brendan Carlin finding political asylum at the Mail on Sunday.
Much appreciated thanks. Gordon Brown has for a long time hated Switzerland's stance on banking confidentiality because they won't let him poke into the details of accounts held here, so the current attack by the DT makes sense now.

Let us not forget that a very large chunk of the UK media (Sky, Sun, Times to quote just 3) is owned by the Murdoch empire.

That'll be the end of free speech in the UK press then?

Suermel 16.10.2007 13:53

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harshapaulraj (Post 116127)
I think we should change the 74% to 50%: one post on this forum had a chart showing party preferences of people across professions. I noticed that SVP and SD had a total of at least 50% in all categories. The SD is just as aggressive as the SVP when it comes to foreigners. SD I assume are the Schweizer Demokraten. Let me know if I've got this wrong.

As already mentioned, you are mixing up the SP with the SD. the SP are the social democrats who are the second largest party atm. The SD has pretty much vanished from the national scene since the SVP started to integrate their ideology into theirs....

Anyway, it really saddens me that all this election campaign boils down to is pro-/contra Blocher and the immigration issue. As if we didn't have other problems.
Sadly it seems that the parties that are acutally focusing on issues seem to lose more and more votes in the polls :(

Nathu 16.10.2007 16:07

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suermel (Post 116860)
Anyway, it really saddens me that all this election campaign boils down to is pro-/contra Blocher and the immigration issue. As if we didn't have other problems.
Sadly it seems that the parties that are acutally focusing on issues seem to lose more and more votes in the polls :(

It is understandable in an expat forum but I agree, Switzerland should move on.

Here's a leading article that doesn't see that dark for the middle parties, to cheer you up. (You've cast your vote, have you? ;))

Suermel 16.10.2007 16:13

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathu (Post 116950)
It is understandable in an expat forum but I agree, Switzerland should move on.

it is undestandable here, yes. But I wasn't really referring to the forum, but to the campaign everywhere, including the local media. All that seems to be debated its black sheep and Blocher....

Quote:

Here's a leading article that doesn't see that dark for the middle parties, to cheer you up. (You've cast your vote, have you? ;))
yeah, there's always hope :) and no, I haven't voted yet, but will :)


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