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  #261  
Old 14.09.2007, 18:48
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Doudou Diene, the UNO special rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance has requested the removal of the offensive SVP "black sheep" posters.

http://tages-anzeiger.ch/dyn/news/schweiz/790957.html
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  #262  
Old 14.09.2007, 18:56
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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The naturalised spouse of a Swiss citizens acquires their spouse's place of origin.
However, Swiss citizens may have multiple places of origin as a result of marriage. I'm not clear which would take precedence, I think that is down to personal choice.
Do you see a demographic time bomb there? Imagine the youngsters moving from a rural area to the big cities, paying no tax to their place of origin, then that place being responsible for them in their old age?

I hope I'm wrong in this speculation, but I've seen what's happened to rural communities in the UK.

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To answer JVC, the commune isn't responsible for a non-Swiss if married but not naturalised.
Thanks. I believe that my friend has already addressed the situation.
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  #263  
Old 14.09.2007, 23:39
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Not really as you have to be destitute.

I quite fancy the idea of liquidating all my assets just before reaching retirement age, going on the ultimate world tour blowout and then turning up in Switzerland destitute....


.... only to find the rules have changed, I've contracted malaria and I've no health insurance .
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  #264  
Old 14.09.2007, 23:52
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

If the Swiss government is trying attract Foriegn companies to Switzerland, then the poorer cantons such as Uri, Obwalden Thurgau and Jura will certianly want a slice of the action. They should then work to bring their policies in line with EU guidelines.
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  #265  
Old 15.09.2007, 11:35
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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British analyst assesses "black sheep" row

The article.
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  #266  
Old 16.09.2007, 01:13
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

before i say the following i want to make it clear that the posters are totally offensive in my lame ass opinion. furthermore, in lugano, i have observed that many of these posters have been modified in very amusing ways that clearly demonstrate the grass roots opposition to this proposal (i will take some pics and post). However, freedom of speech trumps in my view most other rights, and if people or political parties want to advocate hateful, bigoted, narrow minded perspectives, then they have that right.

i also believe in the common sense of most people and that most hateful ideas will be rejected. at the end of the day, free speech is a far more important value than most other rights (well not right to life, or freedom from unreasonable search and seizure), but stupid ideas have a right to be said and stupid people have a right to say them. on the other hand reasonable people will take those ideas and beat the living shit out of them. i hope that many of you on this forum who oppose the security initiative will convey your positions to swiss politicians because this is a society that can ill afford to lose the economic contributions that most of you make to this country.
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  #267  
Old 16.09.2007, 04:56
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/special...=1054879844000
This 2003 reort shows that the swiss abroad vote can tip the balance. the Swiss abroad have already recieved their voting papers. If the trend continues there will be a large vote for the SP. If this is publicized then there could be a reaction vote from the SVP
I suppose this is a chicken and egg question, but did the Swiss abroad change their vote influenced by the politics abroad, or did their political views motivate them to go abroad? In any case the Swiss roots must run deep for them still to care enough to vote.
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  #268  
Old 16.09.2007, 15:58
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]



Farmers are the cause of all this, in every country, they are the most conservative & reactionary to social change ... so there we go
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  #269  
Old 16.09.2007, 16:47
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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I suppose this is a chicken and egg question, but did the Swiss abroad change their vote influenced by the politics abroad, or did their political views motivate them to go abroad?
I think it's not so much about politics than about something else. In general the SP as well as the Green party favor more social security, more welfare etc. I suspect that many Swiss citizens living abroad view Switzerland as some sort of safe haven where they could always go back to if things abroad go wrong. Hence it's in their best interest to have a strong and generous system of welfare and social security, after all they don't have to pay for it.
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  #270  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:02
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that human rights legislation could come into play if a criminal is deported and this has happened in the UK.

An Italian national stabbed and killed the headmaster of his school, who had a wife and four children, and the trial judge recommended that he be deported when he had served his sentence. He is due to be released next year, when he will be 28, but has won a court case stopping his deportation as, under the human rights legislation, he has the right to remain with his family and his mother and brother are resident in the UK. (His father is in prison in Spain charged with murder by stabbing and was previously sentenced to15 years for throwing acid into the face of his girlfriend).

The UK government is considering an appeal but if they lose it they will not only be unable to deport him but he will be entitled to protection of his privacy preventing anyone from revealing where, or who, he is. This means that the family would be given new identities, relocated and police protection would have to be provided all, of course, at great expense to the UK taxpayer. If he was able to obtain employment presumably his employer would not be entitled to know his real history and if he could not find work the taxpayer would have to support him.

This raises some interesting questions. If a foreigner with a record of a severe crime applied for a Swiss permit they would presumably be refused. However, if they committed the crime here and on their release they had family here, they could not be deported as the human rights legislation would, in effect, award them the benefit of a residence permit and, if they were unable to find work, presumably the Swiss taxpayer would be expected to support them.

(As of next year within the EU citizens can be returned to their home country, deported, to server their sentence without their agreement although this would seem to violate their human rights).
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  #271  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:05
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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I think it's not so much about politics than about something else. In general the SP as well as the Green party favor more social security, more welfare etc. I suspect that many Swiss citizens living abroad view Switzerland as some sort of safe haven where they could always go back to if things abroad go wrong. Hence it's in their best interest to have a strong and generous system of welfare and social security, after all they don't have to pay for it.
Then surely that is an argument that those who help to build the wealth in a country and this includes the immigrant labour force, should be the ones to benefit and not those with inherited rights living abroad who just return as parasites. I would have thought that most of those traveling abroad do so for professional reasons and so they do not need to rely on Swiss welfare I have heard of a few auslaenderschweizer who return to Switzerland from South Africa periodically to collect their pensions, but those that I know of vote SVP beause they want their status/rights as the real Swiss protected. Perhaps the ad should be changed to have multicoloured sheep kicking pensions seekers out.
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  #272  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:12
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

An Italian national stabbed and killed the headmaster of his school, who had a wife and four children, and the trial judge recommended that he be deported when he had served his sentence. He is due to be released next year, when he will be 28, but has won a court case stopping his deportation as, under the human rights legislation, he has the right to remain with his family and his mother and brother are resident in the UK. (His father is in prison in Spain charged with murder by stabbing and was previously sentenced to15 years for throwing acid into the face of his girlfriend).

Sounds like the mafia to me- who paid for the lawyer- citizens advice? He must have contacts somewhere.
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  #273  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:13
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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I would have thought that most of those traveling abroad do so for professional reasons and so they do not need to rely on Swiss welfare
I would expect that there are very few you will actually rely on it, but if my assumption above is right, then it's not about actually needing it but about wanting it to be there... just in case.
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  #274  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:23
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Yep guessed right- he's Mafia, they exist in Switzerland too. It is terrible that the political refugees who flee their countries to places like Switzerland are then vicitms of mafia/gang thugs from their own country.
Especially if the mafia type ( those with the money and infleunce) are endorsed at the expense of the majority of honest refugees. it is the duty of the Swiss authorities to pick them out and kick them out- not pick on soft targets. Let's hope the UK is effective in getting rid of these mafia power wielding thugs.
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  #275  
Old 16.09.2007, 17:38
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/histor...ss_embargo.htm

Military, armaments industry, and nuclear relations between Switzerland and South Africa and the UN Apartheid debate of 1948-1994. Blocher is one of the main guys!

Dang I'm going to miss those Buurezmorge am Hof!
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  #276  
Old 16.09.2007, 18:05
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/histor...ss_embargo.htm

Military, armaments industry, and nuclear relations between Switzerland and South Africa and the UN Apartheid debate of 1948-1994. Blocher is one of the main guys!

Dang I'm going to miss those Buurezmorge am Hof!
What has this got to do with the topic ?
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  #277  
Old 16.09.2007, 18:28
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

great article from that well known suporter of human rights & middle of the road ethics. If we had the SVP in the UK, guess which newspaper the membership would predominantly read ?

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The Daily Mail considers itself to be the voice of Middle England, speaking up for "small-c" conservative values against what it sees as a liberal establishment. It generally takes an anti-European, anti-immigration, anti-homosexuality, anti-atheism, anti-abortion view, and is correspondingly pro-family, pro-tax cuts and pro-monarchy, as well as advocating stricter punishments for crime. The paper is generally critical of the BBC, which it perceives as being biased to the left. However, it is less supportive of deregulated commercial television than The Sun, and unlike Rupert Murdoch's tabloid it seems to be broadly nostalgic for what it believes the BBC once was.
from Wikipedia

Last edited by Polorise; 16.09.2007 at 19:03. Reason: further infos to support sarkiness
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  #278  
Old 16.09.2007, 18:45
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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What has this got to do with the topic ?
Here's an extract- you deide if it is relevant. Right -wing tactics manipulating the media. To me it demonstrates Blocher tactics abroad may be an illustration if what he might like to acheive back home.

Not to say that I lump all SVP in the same boat.

Beside the military technology level, the military policy level is also noteworthy. The sharpening of social conflicts within South Africa and the increasing international pressure on South Africa from the outside world prompted the South African armed forces to expand their propaganda activity greatly during the 1980s. The armed forces and particularly the military intelligence service were not afraid to spend money or use contacts ranging all the way to right-wing extremist forces ready to resort to violence to implement their so-called ComOps projects (an abbreviation for communications operations). In Switzerland the South African military attaché and others in his network built up contacts to some ambiguous figures on the extreme right fringe of the political spectrum, among them Jürg Meister, editor in chief of «intern informationen», published by Karl Friedrich Grau. As emerges from documents prepared by South Africa´s military intelligence service, he considered it important to contact people like the Zurich “subversive hunter’ Ernst Cincera, the director of the Swiss Ostinstitut, Peter Sager, and the president of the Working Group on Southern Africa, Christoph Blocher. The efforts of ComOps operations in Switzerland exerted pressure on television, radio, and the print media as well as participation in sporting events – especially military-related contests such as the international two-day march in Berne. Only when other countries like the Netherlands threatened to boycott the two-day march if the South African armed forces continued to be represented with large delegations was this confined to civilian participants from 1988 on. Protests by the Anti-Apartheid Movement of Switzerland continued to be ignored. A long series of unexplained cases raises more questions than answers. The Swiss Federal Police and other investigative agencies received strong evidence of crimes and broken sanctions, but shrunk back taking legal action on the information out of consideration for the South African government and its prominent friends in Switzerland. In the case of a well known armaments firm in eastern Switzerland that entered major gun-running deals with South Africa, the federal police were content to urge that the firm´s top management remove a rather unsuited project coworker from this operation and take care that the gun-running be handled more discreetly.
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  #279  
Old 16.09.2007, 18:55
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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great article from that well known suporter of human rights & middle of the road ethics. If we had the SVP in the UK, guess which newspaper the membership would predominantly read ?

Was it them or The Express that were pro-Blackshirt in the 1930s?
On the other hand, personally, I thought Orwell got it wrong in 1984 by having the Party use The Times when there were much better candidates...
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  #280  
Old 16.09.2007, 19:02
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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Was it them or The Express that were pro-Blackshirt in the 1930s?
On the other hand, personally, I thought Orwell got it wrong in 1984 by having the Party use The Times when there were much better candidates...
yep, was the DM, proprietor during pre-war & war (II) was Lord Rothermere who was a proto-Nazi himself.
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