English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/10275-security-creation-initiative-aka-svp-black-sheep-grabbing-hands-posters.html)

Colonelboris 16.09.2007 20:06

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
[off-topic]Granddad used to have fun watching the Blackshirt rallies in London. Some of his friends (not Granddad...) used to take potatoes to throw at them as they marched past. I might have neglected to mention just then that they used to load the potatoes with razor blades...
It's nice to know in Britain that having a father who was wanting an alliance with the Nazis (damn - first mention of one of the two 'n's in a thread...) doesn't get in the way of a career, even when you do run that business in the same way as a totalitarian regime... [/off-topic]

Blonaybear 16.09.2007 20:06

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polorise (Post 104814)
great article from that well known suporter of human rights & middle of the road ethics. If we had the SVP in the UK, guess which newspaper the membership would predominantly read ?

If you prefer you can have the article from The Times, The Telegraph, This is London or just about any UK newspaper you please if you care to search.
The point of my post was to raise the issue of human rights legislation, as the issue had been raised earlier in the thread, and how it might have a bearing on any national laws regarding deportation. I don't see the connection to the political views of one newspaper. All the UK papers carried the story so take your choice.

Polorise 17.09.2007 13:05

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Blocher now has his own TV station due to be released, details are here for some of the programming : Das Blocher Principe :msnshock:
It will be on a .tv domain & broadcast in three regions & available on the interweb, according to todays Bund.

News.ch has an interesting article regarding the legality of a TV channel dedicated to him. :rolleyes:

Principia Discordia 17.09.2007 13:41

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polorise (Post 104952)
Blocher now has his own TV station due to be released, details are here for some of the programming : Das Blocher Principe :msnshock:
It will be on a .tv domain & broadcast in three regions & available on the interweb, according to todays Bund.

News.ch has an interesting article regarding the legality of a TV channel dedicated to him. :rolleyes:

Just to clarify, it seems to be a regular program in which he is interviewed, not a TV station/channel.

Guest 17.09.2007 13:44

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Principia Discordia (Post 104976)
Just to clarify, it seems to be a regular program in which he is interviewed, not a TV station/channel.

Bet that's must-see-TV :rolleyes:. Hope it's as gripping as the Saturday afternoon SF debating show with it's 1970s-style studio.

Polorise 17.09.2007 13:49

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Principia Discordia (Post 104976)
Just to clarify, it seems to be a regular program in which he is interviewed, not a TV station/channel.

read the second link from news.ch or this article from Der Bund

Quote:

Die TV-Stationen M1, Tele Tell und Schaffhauser Fernsehen zeigten sie am Sonntag, Tele Südostschweiz am Montag.
apparently there is a plan afoot for www.christophblocher.tv , according to a Swiss colleague, but it doesnt lead anywhere at present.

Principia Discordia 17.09.2007 14:02

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polorise (Post 104983)
read the second link from news.ch or this article from Der Bund

I did. :confused:

The first sentence:

"Die wöchentliche Sendung mit Bundesrat Christoph Blocher heisst Blocher-TV und wird im Internet und auf drei regionalen Fernsehstationen ausgestrahlt. "

Translation - The weekly program with Bundesrat Christoph Blocher is called Blocher-TV and will be shown on three regional television stations and the internet.

Sendung is program, Sender is channel. Plus, there is no way in hell any political party would have enough content to support an entire channel, not even the SVP. :)

Nairda 17.09.2007 16:36

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonaybear (Post 104829)
The point of my post was to raise the issue of human rights legislation, as the issue had been raised earlier in the thread, and how it might have a bearing on any national laws regarding deportation.

The issue in Switzerland is different to the UK as it is about the primacy of international law and treaties that Switzerland has adopted rather than a conflict between domestic legislation. For some information see the Swiss Info article "Blocher takes swipe at international law".

To illustrate, if an initiative was put forward and supported by the people and cantons that resulted in Italian nationals being denied residency permits and the right to work this could not be transcribed into national law because it conflicts with the bilaterals between Switzerland and the EU (also approved by public vote). Switzerland would have to first withdraw from the bilaterals, which would inevitably first be put to the public vote.

It is part of the SVP's campaign style to put forward issues that they know cannot become law as proposed to make their point that Switzerland would be better off without its international obligations. Blocher started his political career as President of the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland, which campaigned against UN membership and the bilaterals with the EU.

Blonaybear 17.09.2007 20:54

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nairda (Post 105070)
The issue in Switzerland is different to the UK as it is about the primacy of international law and treaties that Switzerland has adopted rather than a conflict between domestic legislation. For some information see the Swiss Info article "Blocher takes swipe at international law".

To illustrate, if an initiative was put forward and supported by the people and cantons that resulted in Italian nationals being denied residency permits and the right to work this could not be transcribed into national law because it conflicts with the bilaterals between Switzerland and the EU (also approved by public vote). Switzerland would have to first withdraw from the bilaterals, which would inevitably first be put to the public vote.

It is part of the SVP's campaign style to put forward issues that they know cannot become law as proposed to make their point that Switzerland would be better off without its international obligations. Blocher started his political career as President of the Campaign for an Independent and Neutral Switzerland, which campaigned against UN membership and the bilaterals with the EU.

Nairda, thanks for your post. As I understand it both Switzerlad and the UK are subject to both the UN and EU human rights treaties. The case in the UK has shown that a deportation that could be carried out under domestic law has been blocked by the EU human rights leglislatioin and for this reason some politicians are calling for the withdrawal from this and for the UK to enact its own legislation in its place. So it seems to be a case of the UK domestic law being overridden by EU law.

Are you saying that if this initiative was accepted by the people it could not be passed into law without first changing the EU law ?

Nairda 17.09.2007 21:50

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The issue in the UK is where legislation conflicts with the domestic Human Rights Act, which is an interpretation of the UK's obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, which comes under the Council of Europe not the EU, although all EU member states are expected to subscribe to it.

The argument in the UK is firstly whether the Human Rights Act goes 'too far' although the UK was repeatedly losing cases in Europe under the ECHR before it was enacted. Secondly, whether the UK should continue to subscribe to the whole of the ECHR.

Switzerland joined the Council of Europe in 1963. The UK was a founding member in May 1949.

My understanding is that Switzerland therefore has an international treaty obligation which Swiss law recognises as having primacy. So the initiative would have to be transcribed into law in a manner that reflected this. This is certainly the implication of the Swiss Info article.

I'm not a Swiss constitutional lawyer though! Ultimately, the courts would have to take a view on the wording of any legislation I suspect.

Nairda 18.09.2007 13:23

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The Swiss Info commentary on the approval of the violent offenders law in the National Council (aka House of Representatives) provides further explanation of the process involved and the need to ensure compatibility with the ECHR.

"Finding a middle way between respecting the population's wishes and the rule of law was a "mission impossible", a committee spokeswoman said on Monday."

"Christoph Blocher ... said the authorities would have to guarantee that Swiss legislation was compatible with the human rights convention."

Also, note the timeframe involved from the initiative gaining popular support; and the draft law still needs to be agreed by the Council of States and is in fact first going back to committee.

Polorise 21.09.2007 15:57

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polorise (Post 104952)
Blocher now has his own TV station due to be released, details are here for some of the programming : Das Blocher Principe :msnshock:
It will be on a .tv domain & broadcast in three regions & available on the interweb, according to todays Bund.

News.ch has an interesting article regarding the legality of a TV channel dedicated to him. :rolleyes:

some more info on this from Swissinfo

gotta love this quote :

Quote:

"When I watched this programme it was like something from the former East Germany when journalists were very servile towards representatives of the government,"

tigerli 23.09.2007 00:36

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Beware ! Slowly and stealthily the SVP are controlling the media. Even my PC is infected with a pop-up blocher. :D

Nairda 23.09.2007 13:51

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 107228)
Beware ! Slowly and stealthily the SVP are controlling the media. Even my PC is infected with a pop-up blocher. :D

As is your avatar :eek::D.

Polorise 23.09.2007 18:53

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
very interesting website : http://www.auslaenderstimmrecht.ch/ from this Swisinfo article

Quote:

Foreigners who have been resident for a certain number of years are entitled to vote in local elections in cantons Neuchâtel, Jura, Fribourg, Vaud and Geneva.

In Neuchâtel and Jura they can also vote on cantonal issues.


In Neuchâtel, Fribourg and Vaud foreigners can stand in local communal elections.


The situation is very different in German-speaking Switzerland, where only a handful of communes in Appenzell Outer Rhodes, Basel City and Graubünden allow foreigners to vote.
which I was not aware of .

Blonaybear 23.09.2007 21:26

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
The site refered to by Polorise (http://www.auslaenderstimmrecht.ch/ ) is, according to Swisinfo
Quote:

A new website launched on Sunday gives Switzerland's foreign residents the chance to vote – albeit unofficially - in next month's parliamentary elections.
The aim of the German-language site is to show that foreigners – who account for 20 per cent of the population – are responsible citizens and should be granted voting rights.
It’s only available in German and is, therefore, clear discrimination again those of us in the French and Italian areas. In the interest of solidarity with those of us on the other side of the Röstigraben you will all no doubt wish to boycott it !

I am preparing a poster showing the German speaking sheep kicking out the French and Italian ones. What colour should the sheep be ?

Colonelboris 23.09.2007 21:51

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Put a Swiss flag colour scheme on all of them and give the Suisse-Romande one a beret and the Ticino one a pizza...
It's all about stereotypes after all... :D

Nairda 23.09.2007 22:02

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
...and you can't kick them out, they're citizens.
Kick them into the Röstigraben instead.

A kids game with a goat pooping into the trench could follow.

<No smilies, this is SERIOUS politics>

tigerli 23.09.2007 22:07

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonaybear (Post 107425)
The site refered to by Polorise (http://www.auslaenderstimmrecht.ch/ ) is, according to Swisinfo
It’s only available in German and is, therefore, clear discrimination again those of us in the French and Italian areas. In the interest of solidarity with those of us on the other side of the Röstigraben you will all no doubt wish to boycott it !

Surely the site should be in English. That way at least some foreigners could understand what they were voting for.

Polorise 24.09.2007 00:00

Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerli (Post 107432)
Surely the site should be in English. That way at least some foreigners could understand what they were voting for.

Italian & Serbian would catch around 70% ... will look out the numbers never fear ...


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:01.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0