Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #461  
Old 20.10.2007, 18:26
Nairda's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 354
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 79 Posts
Nairda has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
I wonder if an elected Swiss expat candidate would really walk the walk and come to Switzerland for the parliamentary sessions.
The suggestion of creating a "canton" for Swiss abroad with seats in both houses of parliament would answer that one .
Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 21.10.2007, 01:13
The Laundry Man's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 893
Groaned at 28 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 235 Times in 93 Posts
The Laundry Man has a reputation beyond reputeThe Laundry Man has a reputation beyond reputeThe Laundry Man has a reputation beyond reputeThe Laundry Man has a reputation beyond reputeThe Laundry Man has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

This, in the Guardian blogs today. Highly intelligent, deeply disturbing.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...iss_watch.html
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 21.10.2007, 01:21
tigerli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 224
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 263 Times in 136 Posts
tigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of many
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

This link works...

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...iss_watch.html

Islamophobia ... that's a new word for me.
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 21.10.2007, 02:24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 296
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Verena Scherer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

I suffer from religiophobia in general, the religious right in the US are very powerful and quite scary.
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 22.10.2007, 14:51
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
The suggestion of creating a "canton" for Swiss abroad with seats in both houses of parliament would answer that one .
Yes, but a few smart politicians would maybe move abroad to profit from the lack of competition!


Quote:
View Post
Well, I prefer a different approach. I usually don't care where an initiative comes from. I read the wording of the initiative (or the law in case of a referendum), then consider the arguments of both sides and finally I'll decide. Of course, statements of politicians will influence my decision as long as they deal with the initiative or the law in question, but otherwise I don't really care what they say or how they behave. This matters when it comes to elections but not for votes on initiatives or referenda.
In my opinion this is a good approach, but one should also factor in the legal context and the real-life effects. I've quoted an opinion a few pages back here. In the case of the extradition initiative the effects would be minimal thanks to international human rights laws and common sense, and this turns the initiative into less more than a tool to keep the public interest in their favorite topics high.


ps. Regrettably the OSCE hasn't showed up at my place. And I was counting until 9pm because of the relatively high election participation.
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 22.10.2007, 19:20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 296
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Verena Scherer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

[quote=Nathu;119290]Now that's a bouquet of critics Verena Scherer. Here is my point of view:

Quote:
The Integration Index

(Underscore added) - Public funding for all who claim that they're racially discriminated? Shift in the burden of proof, so the accused has to proof that he did NOT discriminate? A few percent points I gratefully abstain from. I disagree that without a strong anti discrimination law, immigrants have "basically no rights". They just don't have special protection.


The underscore also pointed to legal aid, in the UK legal aid offers protection to those who normally would not be able to afford it. Without legal aid many cases would certainly not come to light. The Swiss system is very backward in making it's bureaucratic institution transparent to the general public, they are attempting to make it more accessible (on line) and this will be a start.


Family Rakitic


Quote:
Ah, the many uses of the word Sippenhaft. It has a horrible past. Then it was used for evictions and now you apply it to a citizenship case.
Yep, basically I take ' Sippenhaft' to mean that the family will be made to pay for the actions of one member, albeit in this case not an illegal action.

Quote:
Mister Rakitic's application wasn't denied, but put on hold. You can read this in the article you linked. Now I won't judge the mayor's decision and have no personal experience in this matter, but it is my understanding that the processing of a request for naturalisation can take some time in Switzerland. No doubt we will learn in the media how the story ends.
Do you think that the Swiss press will cover it? They didn't when it first came to light. To anyone who reads the article ( athough badly written) it is quite clear that an immigration matter was subject to the pressure of the SVP collective (according to Rakitic the famous world class soccer player). The family had never acted illegally, sounded more like a local witch hunt to me where the locals say 'do what we want or we will make it difficult for you to stay'. He was advised to try later when the anger had died down!


Quote:
Votes and candidates from abroad

Entire lists of Swiss expats are a young phenomenon. I call them marketing lists, like the young parties' and senior citizen's lists. Their main purpose is to gather a few additional votes for the main list of the alliance to maybe score an additional seat. I wonder if an elected Swiss expat candidate would really walk the walk and come to Switzerland for the parliamentary sessions.
They don't need to walk, just catch a plane the same as delegates to other events that CH is famous for. Originally the call for a swiss abroad representation was from the SD http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/electio...05206000&ty=st
Social Democrat members of parliament plan to submit a proposal to parliament in summer, calling for the House of Representatives and Senate to be increased by two and six seats respectively, to be appointed by the Swiss abroad. With that the "Fifth Switzerland" would de facto obtain the status of a canton. The the other parties, especially the SVP, started jumping on the bandwagon, but the SD don't have proposed a candidate? Better get one!




Quote:
The Austrians behind wahlgeld.com

It is of course illegal to sell one's vote!

Wahlgeld.com is a fake and artistic performance of the artist group ÜBERMORGEN.COM. Their message is that everybody has his price etc... They claim that in fact about two dozen Swiss voters sent them their voting documents in exchange for 75 Fr., but that they didn't use the documents for voting. This claim is not verifiable, which is also part of the artistic performance or so I think... The entire stunt wasn't overly creative because the very same artist collective has done it before at the American presidential election 2000. It was called [V]ote-auction back then.
Thank goodness for that!


Quote:
Business fraud

What is the link between EU rules, Blocher and business fraud?
Look back at Blocher's arms deals with S. Africa, he doesn't have a good track record. He cherry picks on EU rules, to benefit himself and his lackeys not the underpaid Swiss. he will use every EU tax loophole that he can even if barely legal and recently reported events to keep him on power that may not be legal. Blocher is against tighter security controls on business
"We have seen that controls over normal employees (lower level permanent staff) is fine but when you look at who is actually committing these crimes it tends to be senior members of the organisation or, as we have seen for the first time, temporary staff,"
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/swissin...81&sid=8319733

Quote:
OSCE and voter participation

Political funding is a topic that was raised by some parties and not the OSCE if I'm not mistaken. I think that big donations should be revealed. The OSCE visit is not to be understood as an alarm sign - It's an information and culture exchange. They're also interested in voting by letter because this method is not very common. It would be cool in some way if they come to the informatics center where I process votes tomorrow!

Ok, you may be right, name another country which the OSCE has visited becuase they were merely interested in the process.



Quote:
I don't think we should worry about the participation rate, but we should keep an eye on it. The two arguments supporting this opinion: Even with a low participation rate, the average Swiss influences politics much more than his neighbors thanks to direct democracy. And surveys among Swiss recruits show that even those who don't use their rights to vote are happy with the Swiss system of democracy.
The main reason that the Swiss do not want to make natrualization easier is that it will dramatically reduce the number of foreigners and increase the power of a multi-cultural Swiss voice. So of course if only those with Swiss passports are interviewed then you will have skewed results. Why not ask all those who have been in the country for 5 years or more and consider it their home?

I didn't answer this earlier, becuase I had basically gievn up on Switzerland, my husband mocked me when I was upset about the election results, he said " didn't you learn your lesson when you were there?-Be glad that you left" why should I care- the SVP changes will probably only benefit me financially and because of the bloodline I won't lose any of my entitlements. So I thought " let the Swiss get what they voted for" Then I got an email from one of the people in my village who helped to protect me, when they hardly even knew me and I thought that's why I care.
But I'm just a middle-aged teacher/ housewife/ political idiot, arguing here with someone who has made it clear that they have some kind of political post, surely there are people on this post who can argue my side better than I.
__________________
Death is an insult to my intelligence
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 22.10.2007, 20:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 296
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Verena Scherer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

This is the E government ( below) that I mentioned in the post above it was actually anthor article dicussing its immentation and progress, that I read. However i suppose this is a mute point now as there are bound to be changes in implementation following the election results. I also forgot that I was replying to Nathu the police expert- did you enjoy counting the votes or was it rather like counting sheep?


The E-Government strategy of the Swiss confederation pursues three goals, in order of ... alleviated thanks to reduced bureaucracy and, most importantly, ...
www.ech.ch/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid= 980&lang=de -

__________________
Death is an insult to my intelligence
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 23.10.2007, 00:01
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

The Integration Index

Quote:
View Post
The underscore also pointed to legal aid, in the UK legal aid offers protection to those who normally would not be able to afford it. Without legal aid many cases would certainly not come to light. The Swiss system is very backward in making it's bureaucratic institution transparent to the general public, they are attempting to make it more accessible (on line) and this will be a start.
I'm still not convinced - How often does this legal aid get used and abused in the UK?

All laws, ministries and many other governmental bodies have been online for years. The experiences of other forum members lead me to believe that Switzerland is not overly bureaucratic or intransparent.


Family Rakitic

Quote:
View Post
Yep, basically I take ' Sippenhaft' to mean that the family will be made to pay for the actions of one member, albeit in this case not an illegal action.
Neither is the mayor's move illegal.

Quote:
View Post
Do you think that the Swiss press will cover it? They didn't when it first came to light. To anyone who reads the article ( athough badly written) it is quite clear that an immigration matter was subject to the pressure of the SVP collective (according to Rakitic the famous world class soccer player). The family had never acted illegally, sounded more like a local witch hunt to me where the locals say 'do what we want or we will make it difficult for you to stay'. He was advised to try later when the anger had died down!
The case was reported in Swiss media, too (example).

The application wasn't turned down, it will just be absent at this year's municipal assembly.


Votes and candidates from abroad
Quote:
View Post
They don't need to walk, just catch a plane the same as delegates to other events that CH is famous for. Originally the call for a swiss abroad representation was from the SD http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/electio...05206000&ty=st
Social Democrat members of parliament plan to submit a proposal to parliament in summer, calling for the House of Representatives and Senate to be increased by two and six seats respectively, to be appointed by the Swiss abroad. With that the "Fifth Switzerland" would de facto obtain the status of a canton. The the other parties, especially the SVP, started jumping on the bandwagon, but the SD don't have proposed a candidate? Better get one!
The 27th canton concept has twofold consequences. If the abroad living voter still has ties to Switzerland, why shouldn't he vote (or run) in his old canton? And abroad candidates would need extra money and time (3x4 weeks/year at least) to attend their duties.


The Austrians behind wahlgeld.com

Quote:
View Post
Thank goodness for that!
I think there's not a single democracy out there who deserves this name where selling one's vote is legal?


Business fraud

Quote:
View Post
Look back at Blocher's arms deals with S. Africa, he doesn't have a good track record. He cherry picks on EU rules, to benefit himself and his lackeys not the underpaid Swiss. he will use every EU tax loophole that he can even if barely legal and recently reported events to keep him on power that may not be legal. Blocher is against tighter security controls on business
"We have seen that controls over normal employees (lower level permanent staff) is fine but when you look at who is actually committing these crimes it tends to be senior members of the organisation or, as we have seen for the first time, temporary staff,"
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/swissin...81&sid=8319733
You seem to think Mister Blocher is single-handedly in control of the Swiss economy and legislation. This is not the case. Blocher didn't trade arms with the Apartheid regime. But he founded Arbeitsgruppe Südliches Afrika, an organisation who pushed for good trade relations with South Africa.

Switzerland isn't cherry picking with the EU rules. Quite the contrary, the Bilaterals II are an everything-or-nothing type of contract.


OSCE and voter participation

Quote:
View Post
Ok, you may be right, name another country which the OSCE has visited becuase they were merely interested in the process.
It might be their first mission that is dedicated to knowledge exchange to this degree. A delegation member stated that they're here for this purpose (article in German). You can't achieve much more with only a 10 person delegation anyway.

The OSCE recently has observed elections in less crisis-ridden countries (USA, Italy) than before. The OSCE members have agreed that they allow observation missions as a matter of principle back in 1999. The organisation probably will visit other elections in western Europe, too, in the future.


Naturalisation


Quote:
View Post
The main reason that the Swiss do not want to make natrualization easier is that it will dramatically reduce the number of foreigners and increase the power of a multi-cultural Swiss voice. So of course if only those with Swiss passports are interviewed then you will have skewed results. Why not ask all those who have been in the country for 5 years or more and consider it their home?
I think naturalisation should be a declaration of intent by applicant and country, nothing that happens automatically after a certain period.

Half of the foreigners in Switzerland deliberately didn't apply for citizenship (an estimated 841'000 out of 1'655'300 in 2006; source). Life without citizenship can't be that bad in Switzerland I suppose?


Quote:
View Post
I didn't answer this earlier, becuase I had basically gievn up on Switzerland, my husband mocked me when I was upset about the election results, he said " didn't you learn your lesson when you were there?-Be glad that you left" why should I care- the SVP changes will probably only benefit me financially and because of the bloodline I won't lose any of my entitlements. So I thought " let the Swiss get what they voted for" Then I got an email from one of the people in my village who helped to protect me, when they hardly even knew me and I thought that's why I care.
But I'm just a middle-aged teacher/ housewife/ political idiot, arguing here with someone who has made it clear that they have some kind of political post, surely there are people on this post who can argue my side better than I.
Speaking of discrimination, there is also progress: The percentage of female parlamentarians has again increased and is now 27.8%. And we have our first black parlamentarian now.

My political post consists of about two vote countings per year, it's a militia system here and there are thousands with the same job. I study political science and am genuinely interested in Swiss politics. I write this to introduce some shades of grey to your dark picture of Switzerland.

---

Quote:
View Post
This is the E government ( below) that I mentioned in the post above it was actually anthor article dicussing its immentation and progress, that I read. However i suppose this is a mute point now as there are bound to be changes in implementation following the election results. I also forgot that I was replying to Nathu the police expert- did you enjoy counting the votes or was it rather like counting sheep?
I live in a left-leaning election district and had to count votes of all kinds. It was fine but I hoped it would end sooner!

Quote:
View Post
The E-Government strategy of the Swiss confederation pursues three goals, in order of ... alleviated thanks to reduced bureaucracy and, most importantly, ...
www.ech.ch/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid= 980&lang=de -


Well, this file is from a standards organisation that naturally advertises its work. But E-Government and bureaucracy aren't opposites, there can be both at the same time, or none of them.
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 23.10.2007, 00:37
tigerli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 224
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 263 Times in 136 Posts
tigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of many
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7054932.stm

According to a post election analysis, the riot on 6 Oct was the main reason why many of the late deciders voted for the SVP, increasing their share from 27%, as previously predicted, to 29%. This was based on an opinion survey carried out as people voted.

Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]


Now it remains to be seen if the referendum on this Ausschaffungs-Initiative will get the majority of the people's vote.
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 23.10.2007, 03:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 296
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Verena Scherer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7054932.stm

According to a post election analysis, the riot on 6 Oct was the main reason why many of the late deciders voted for the SVP, increasing their share from 27%, as previously predicted, to 29%. This was based on an opinion survey carried out as people voted.

Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]


Now it remains to be seen if the referendum on this Ausschaffungs-Initiative will get the majority of the people's vote.
I heard that they were from a radicl group, but also heard that they are hired thugs. Did they publish the names and allegiances of those that they arrested?
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 23.10.2007, 04:46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 296
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Verena Scherer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

[quote=Nathu;120513]The Integration Index



Quote:
I'm still not convinced - How often does this legal aid get used and abused in the UK?
Legal aid sometimes gets abused, but more often than not it provide an invaluable resource for innocent and needy.

Quote:
All laws, ministries and many other governmental bodies have been online for years. The experiences of other forum members lead me to believe that Switzerland is not overly bureaucratic or intransparent.
At a local level you may need a seat at the Stammtisch to understand the workings of local government, at higher levels I think that there is always corruption whichever culture you are from

Quote:
Family Rakitic
Neither is the mayor's move illegal.
The Mayor's move may not be illegal but it is divisory, the Mayor is not being refused rights.

Quote:
The case was reported in Swiss media, too (example).
My fault for not reading the Swiss press enough and perhaps relying on propaganda from afar.

Quote:
The application wasn't turned down, it will just be absent at this year's municipal assembly.
How many people reapply once turned down by the people in their village?

Quote:
Votes and candidates from abroad
The 27th canton concept has twofold consequences. If the abroad living voter still has ties to Switzerland, why shouldn't he vote (or run) in his old canton? And abroad candidates would need extra money and time (3x4 weeks/year at least) to attend their duties.
So some will take time for government duties where others take time for Zivilschutz/ military service?

Quote:
The Austrians behind wahlgeld.com
I think there's not a single democracy out there who deserves this name where selling one's vote is legal?
Sorry didn't understand this.


Quote:
Business fraud
You seem to think Mister Blocher is single-handedly in control of the Swiss economy and legislation. This is not the case. Blocher didn't trade arms with the Apartheid regime. But he founded Arbeitsgruppe Südliches Afrika, an organisation who pushed for good trade relations with South Africa.
I've qouted the report several times, it seemd pretty clear to me.

Quote:
Switzerland isn't cherry picking with the EU rules. Quite the contrary, the Bilaterals II are an everything-or-nothing type of contract.
It's Blocher and his lackeys who try to cherry pick on EU regulations.

Quote:
OSCE and voter participation
It might be their first mission that is dedicated to knowledge exchange to this degree. A delegation member stated that they're here for this purpose (article in German). You can't achieve much more with only a 10 person delegation anyway.
The OSCE recently has observed elections in less crisis-ridden countries (USA, Italy) than before. Why US and Italy, anything to do with funding?

The OSCE members have agreed that they allow observation missions as a matter of principle back in 1999. The organisation probably will visit other elections in western Europe, too, in the future.
At least switzerland let them in Poland banned them! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7008373.stm


Quote:
Naturalisation
I think naturalisation should be a declaration of intent by applicant and country, nothing that happens automatically after a certain period.
Half of the foreigners in Switzerland deliberately didn't apply for citizenship (an estimated 841'000 out of 1'655'300 in 2006; source). Life without citizenship can't be that bad in Switzerland I suppose?
I know some that feel so rejected that after a while they just want to get their pensions and leave. Also some cant justify the money that it will cost. Do you still have to pay a percentage of your earnings for a passport?

Quote:
Speaking of discrimination, there is also progress: The percentage of female parlamentarians has again increased and is now 27.8%. And we have our first black parlamentarian now.
I thought that I had seen progress.

Quote:
My political post consists of about two vote countings per year, it's a militia system here and there are thousands with the same job. I study political science and am genuinely interested in Swiss politics. I write this to introduce some shades of grey to your dark picture of Switzerland.
I live in a left-leaning election district and had to count votes of all kinds. It was fine but I hoped it would end sooner!
This where I respect the Swiss; for their sense of civil duty. Here in the US I do volunteer work, just like I did in CH.

Quote:
Well, this file is from a standards organisation that naturally advertises its work. But E-Government and bureaucracy aren't opposites, there can be both at the same time, or none of them.


I think that our polarization in some way reflects the problems that existed in the election. I also don't think that we are really providing the forum with anything worthwhile by parading our egos. I see what I can from the US, but to truly understand I should read more of the Swiss press or preferable actually be in the country. I can justify my contribution by saying that I add another perspective, as I know that sometimes when you are in a country, it is almost as if ' you can't see the wood for the trees'
But the motives of the rest of the world can also be prejudice and I have to take that into account.
I do believe in the saying that 'you judge a society by the way it judges it's most vunerable victims'. I am not saying that this is always the foreigner, people forget that there are poor Swiss too who need protection.
On the whole though I feel that I should shut up and listen more at least for a while. I don't live in Switzerland and I know that there are very many capable and well intentioned Swiss to do the job of deciding Switzerland's future.
__________________
Death is an insult to my intelligence

Last edited by Verena Scherer; 23.10.2007 at 05:01. Reason: unfinished sentence
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 23.10.2007, 07:19
peri1224's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 35
Groaned at 11 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
peri1224 has annoyed a few people around hereperi1224 has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

I absolutely love this poster. It's artistry lies not in its simple cartooning but in the masterful concept of condensing people's sentiment and distilling it into such a powerful visual message. A picture truly says more than a thousand words. Chapeau to the creator and more power to this movement.
This message will certainly be well received in other countries as well. It's a step in the right direction and also a kick in the snout of those moneyed internationalists and their local stooges who want to destroy all notions of nationalism, patriotism, independence, self-sufficiency, etc. in order to get everybody ever deeper entangled in their fraudulent and sticky net of worldwide money-media domination. The presence of too many black sheep is a mere symptom of this unhealthy state of affairs.
Bring back the spirit of Wilhelm Tell to kick out the tyrants.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at peri1224 for this post:
  #473  
Old 23.10.2007, 08:55
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,877
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

yes, because the historic ways of patriotism and nationalism have proven a very sucessful formula for a peaceful world.
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 23.10.2007, 09:07
tigerli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 224
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 263 Times in 136 Posts
tigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of many
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
Bring back the spirit of Wilhelm Tell to kick out the tyrants.
Let's hope that a modern day hero will rise up and kick out Blocher. Time will tell.
Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old 23.10.2007, 09:45
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,779
Groaned at 329 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 10,777 Times in 3,750 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
Let's hope that a modern day hero will rise up and kick out Blocher. Time will tell.
The problem is that for many voters Blocher is William Tell....
Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old 23.10.2007, 16:06
peri1224's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 35
Groaned at 11 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
peri1224 has annoyed a few people around hereperi1224 has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Let's not forget that we have to thank our leftists for letting in too many black sheep in the first place. No need to attack or belittle those who would like to solve this particular problem.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users groan at peri1224 for this post:
  #477  
Old 23.10.2007, 18:23
Colonelboris's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 1,137
Groaned at 23 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,273 Times in 671 Posts
Colonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
Let's not forget that we have to thank our leftists for letting in too many black sheep in the first place. No need to attack or belittle those who would like to solve this particular problem.
What constitutes a black sheep to you?
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 23.10.2007, 18:39
tigerli's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 224
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 263 Times in 136 Posts
tigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of manytigerli has earned the respect of many
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
The problem is that for many voters Blocher is William Tell....
I'm not so sure about that. You see Hitler banned William Tell and many of the SVP believe that Hitler did no wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 24.10.2007, 08:51
Suermel's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 170
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
Suermel has no particular reputation at present
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
Let's not forget that we have to thank our leftists for letting in too many black sheep in the first place. No need to attack or belittle those who would like to solve this particular problem.
it's strange that the leftist are somehow to blame even though they never held a majority in parliament :hmm:
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 24.10.2007, 09:52
peri1224's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 35
Groaned at 11 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
peri1224 has annoyed a few people around hereperi1224 has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

Quote:
View Post
What constitutes a black sheep to you?
I understand that the prison population in Switzerland is 70% foreign. Those are probably the blackest of the black sheep and first in line to be kicked out. Then you can work through asylum abusers and other undesirables that rob Switzerland of its once clean, relatively crime-free, characteristic SWISS culture. If you like Turkish culture, go to Turkey, if you like African culture, go to Africa. Who but us can preserve our unique Swiss culture in Switzerland? Once it is lost, it's gone forever. We can still be hospitable to foreigners while we love and preserve our own culture. Naturalize only those who are proven fully assimilated. Don't allow Switzerland to deteriorate to an unattractive and increasingly spreading "world" standard. Preserve the old Switzerland, it's worth it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
auslaender, bigotry, foreigners, initiatives, swiss politics, xenophobia




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Black Sheep.. Spirit of Jazz General off-topic 3 13.01.2011 22:50
Black sheep out r2d2 Swiss politics/news 1 14.12.2007 09:21
Black Sheep T-shirts Avaialable smbuzby Daily life 2 04.10.2007 16:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0