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12.05.2008, 16:07
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: | |  | | | ...I know this is not the opinion of the majority of the Swiss society... | | | | | According to SVP calculations, 30% is a majority — or at least the other 70% don't yet realize that they voted wrong. | Quote: | |  | | | Any comments on how we, ‘the foreigners’ should deal with this growing Swiss xenophobia? | | | | | I appreciate your using a more accurate term (" xenophobia"). This thread is needlessly peppered with the use of "racist" as a "politically correct" substitute for "xenophobic" or "culturally-" or "ethnically-bigoted." (BTW, I'm not suggesting that SVP is devoid of actual racism, xenophobia, or bigotry; only that the three terms are not synonyms.) | Quote: | |  | | | I don't think there is anything to deal with since these campaigns aren't aimed at the likes of you or I. Neither of us are interested in a Swiss passport or Swiss social/welfare benefits. I think the Swiss (including SVP voters) do realise that without the skills of foreign professionals their economic power houses would grind to a halt. | | | | | I think that sums the matter up rather neatly. I would only add that a lot of "in-your-face" reaction — especially from among the ranks of professional and well-educated foreigners — could conceivably do needless harm to the cause of foreigners in general.
Cheers,
Tim
Last edited by Texaner; 12.05.2008 at 18:08.
Reason: Removed poster image for space and asthetics reasons.
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12.05.2008, 17:45
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ZH
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| | Re: new SVP campaign | Quote: | |  | | | Dear all, I moved to Switzerland 5 months ago. I’m young, fit, honest (modest ) working lady. I’m totally legal here; pay my taxes helping the whole Swiss society (and myself while living here of course). Switzerland did not invest on my education (I have a top 10 MBA) neither on my kids, since I still don’t have them and will probably not spend a penny with me for retirement since I will probably retire in a warmer sunnier place . I’m trying to mingle with the Swiss people, adapt to their uses, culture, learn their language and really integrate myself. Despite of all that, I was really annoyed by the current SVP campaign (poster bellow) but worse than that I fund their leaflet yesterday AT MY MAILBOX with the graphs of how many people joined Switzerland from different countries as this would be a crime and/or an indication on how to recognize the ‘good and bad’ people . Am I the only one disgusted with this campaign? I know this is not the opinion of the majority of the Swiss society, but isn’t alarming that these ideas are attracting so many followers lately and a growing space in the media? Any comments on how we, ‘the foreigners’ should deal with this growing Swiss xenophobia? Tks for the insights and have a lovely long weekend,  | | | | | Let me just add my 5 cents to this. I find these posters beyond disgusting and the whole atmosphere in the country is getting on my nerves to such extend that I'm planning to leave in next 6 months.
As a skilled professional, who has worked in several other countries in Europe as well, but also being tagged as a "Jugos" (also publicly in the office ?!?), I feel directly addressed by this campaign. Not to mention that I can hardly imagine how people of non-white skin color feel. I just cannot wait to stop paying taxes here as well as unemployment benefits (which I don't get to see either if I loose my job here).
What is also quite interesting is that SVP got 30% of votes in the last elections. This is not real majority but a fact that every third person here is their supporter (and please don’t forget the campaign they had) is at least disturbing. If I knew any of this before, I would never come here. Not to mention where they can stick their passports to.
Excuse me for such a negative post but I have quite some anger accumulated in me.
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12.05.2008, 19:35
| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
As I understood it, what is at stake with this campaign is whether citizenship will be denied/approved by your the community council, or whether it is processed at a more legal process.
If you are thinking of applying for citizenship in the future, this campaign DOES have something to do with you. Although, of course, you can't vote on it.
The problem with current citizenship approval is that it may be open to abuses. If your last name ends with "ic", you may have a harder time. But what other abuses can it bring about? Not defending yourself in a dispute? Smiling when insulted? An applicant would had spent the last (10) years kow-towing to the locals. I think what is at stake is some's power-trip.
Last edited by Phos; 12.05.2008 at 19:54.
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12.05.2008, 20:21
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zentralschweiz
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: | |  | | | As I understood it. What is at stake with this campaign is whether citizenship will be denied/approved by your the community council, or whether it is processed at a more legal process. | | | | | At issue is whether local authorities should be free to choose whether a public assembly, elected panel or voters have the final say by secret ballot or not. Secret ballot was struck down by the court, and SVP wants to reverse that by popular vote. I'm not sure what is meant by "a more legal process." | Quote: | |  | | | If you are thinking of applying for citizenship in the future, this campaign DOES have something to do with you. Although, of course, you can't vote on it. | | | | | ...Which is not at all unusual. Switzerland isn't the only country that doesn't freely award immigrants the right to vote. Since it's never been a secret that a Swiss passport isn't easily obtainable, nobody should realistically expect that their taking up residence will (or should) change that and somehow entitle them to something the Swiss have never been generous or even remotely egalitarian about. | Quote: | |  | | | The problem with current citizenship approval is that it may be open to abuses. ... I think what is at stake is some's power-trip. | | | | | There's no denying that every system everywhere remains vulnerable to abuses, corruption, and injustice in some measure or another, as long as human beings are involved  . And no doubt there are some power trips involved. But the indefensible nature of abuse, corruption, injustice, and power trips doesn't automatically gain anyone a "right" to a certain rate of change, let alone a passport.
Notwithstanding all the folly of SVP's agenda (and they're still outnumbered by more than 2 to 1  ), it seems naive to think one can take up residence in any new community with immunity from the effects of long-standing norms and customs, including where some measure of prejudice is involved.
Last edited by Texaner; 12.05.2008 at 20:24.
Reason: Misspelling.
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12.05.2008, 20:42
| Banned | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Basel
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative
........................
Last edited by ElieDeLeuze; 09.07.2009 at 20:16.
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13.05.2008, 00:02
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southampton, UK
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | This user would like to thank Colonelboris for this useful post: | | 
21.05.2008, 16:03
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
There have been a couple of informative posts since my last one!  Here's my attempt of a sumary:
If I remember right, the grabbing hands poster was first used by SVP/UCD in 2004 in two votes about new law drafts that would've simplified the naturalisation of second generation immigrants who are less than 25 years old, and would've naturalised the third generation close to automatically. The Swiss voted against these laws with 56.8% and 51.6%.
Swiss communes can chose from a variety of naturalisation process options in principle. Two Federal Court rulings have influenced their possibilities: The first ruling was in favor of applicants who were obviously denied citizenship based on their origin by a municipal assembly. The other ruling stated that voting with ballot boxes was illegal. Basically it was judged that it is unconstitutional to deny citizenship without justification. The justification can then be challenged in higher instances, if the applicant wishes so.
About 5% of the Swiss municipalities made naturalisation decisions at municipal assemblies before the court ruling. They have changed to another system now, or introduced a justification at the assemblies.
If the naturalisation initiative gets accepted, municipalities not only wouldn't have to provide the justification anymore. There would also be no granted (cantonal, federal) instance for objections. Only applicants for facilitated naturalisation would remain unaffected, because this process is federal.
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21.05.2008, 16:12
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zentralschweiz
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: | |  | | | ...If the naturalisation initiative gets accepted, municipalities not only wouldn't have to provide the justification anymore. There would also be no granted (cantonal, federal) instance for objections. Only applicants for facilitated naturalisation would remain unaffected, because this process is federal. | | | | | Thanks for that excellent synopsis.
Could you please provide a summary of what constitutes 'facilitated naturalisation'?
Cheers,
Tim
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21.05.2008, 16:27
| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: | |  | | | Thanks for that excellent synopsis.
Could you please provide a summary of what constitutes 'facilitated naturalisation'?
Cheers,
Tim | | | | | Not sure of all rules but one case is when you are married to a Swiss and can gain citizenship that way. This is "facilitated".
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21.05.2008, 16:33
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
A summary can be found here.
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21.05.2008, 16:36
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lörrach/DE
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
The funny thing is this: while there is all this "stop the wrong foreigners getting the Little Red Book" going on, has anyone ever been asked if they would consider applying for Swiss citizenship and then been confronted with a mixture of surprise and offence if you say "no"? I sure have.
Or is it just that some of us might be the "right foreigner"? But I already have 2 nationalities, so no need to get greedy.
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21.05.2008, 16:56
| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] My Swiss husband is the one pushing for me to get citizenship. I am fine with it as I can keep my original nationality (British) but it's my own lethargy letting me down. I've filled in the forms but can't quite manage to get myself down to the office in Zurich with all the stuff. I think I was put off the last time because I had to wait for bloomin' ages with a hungry, piffed off baby. Now he is worried that this vote on 1st June is going to make it more difficult but, having read Nathu's posts further up, am I correct in my understanding that facilitated naturalisation is not affected by the 1st June vote? Can I continue to be lazy and forgetful or do I need to get a rush on and submit my papers before the vote goes through? | 
21.05.2008, 17:19
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: |  | | | ...Can I continue to be lazy and forgetful or do I need to get a rush on and submit my papers before the vote goes through?  | | | | | Since ' integration' is the first requirement listed on the page cited by Nathu, my unqualified advice is to put an immediate end to such un-Swiss traits as 'laziness' and 'forgetfulness' (perhaps replacing them with 'deliberation in action' and a 'discriminating sense of recall'?).
Cheers,
Tim
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21.05.2008, 17:24
| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] | Quote: | |  | | | Since 'integration' is the first requirement listed on the page cited by Nathu, my unqualified advice is to put an immediate end to such un-Swiss traits as 'laziness' and 'forgetfulness' (perhaps replacing them with 'deliberation in action' and a 'discriminating sense of recall'?). 
Cheers,
Tim | | | | | Yes, you are right.  They probably won't want a shirker and all round layabout taking up space in this fair and beautiful country.
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25.08.2008, 18:25
| Newbie | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: basel
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| | Foreigners Stop!
I am writting in response to the upcoming political elections and a specific flyer I recieved in the mail today.
Its a bit hard to translate directly, but the Swiss Democratic political party has just distributed the most disturbing propaganda yet. It depicts
caricatures of 'foreigners' and states that 'Romanians and Bulgarians (foreigners) are responsible for higher lving costs (rhousing costs)) in Switzerland and there is a caricature of a man supposeidly a Romanian or Bulgarian (see www.sd-bs.ch) ANYHOW I wrote to the political candidate for Basel Stadt (whose name I wont mention here, because I dont want to be accused of attacking anyone) and told the candidate while I respect his right to exercise his right to freedom of speech, this pamphlet seemingly resonates racist and discriminatory undertones in its attempt to ignorantly depict negative caricatures of foreigners and distribute them in the mail. The issue of 'foreigners' is a complex issue, and I am apalled to receive such hateful mail directed at foreigners! I can not post the response I received from the candidate for I believe I would be overstepping copyright, privacy and whatnot boundaries, but I assure you, it attacked myself and only furthered the politcal party's anti-foreigner agenda.
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25.08.2008, 18:44
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| | Re: Foreigners Stop!
They are really polemic because the SVP has won most of their turf. But then it's the Swiss Democrats and arguing in the Creationism vs. Evolution thread is probably more productive.
For consolation, they're list number 9, so they are about the ninth most popular party in Basel-Stadt...
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26.08.2008, 05:03
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
I also got that flyer. Actually, what outrages me is not really the existence of SVP and their offensive flyers, but the complete apathy of the Swiss population about it. Even in my home country - Brazil - where the legal system is far from being perfect, distributing such a flyer would get the responsible in jail in a very short time. Maybe Switzerland has the highest level of democracy and I fail to understand it, or the population really agrees with that thing.
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26.08.2008, 16:14
|  | Member | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, if the Brazil governent would plan to sign a contract to allow in future every citizen of Bolivia and Peru to settle and work in Brazil under about the same conditions as the Brazilians, every one who would start a campaign against this in which he would point out that this may cost some jobs an propably causing higher housing costs - he would end in jail. I'm feel deeply sorry for jabaloo that he has to live in such an intolerant and racist country like Switzerland.
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27.08.2008, 06:50
|  | Newbie | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
Well, surely everyone is free to complain to their own government about anything they think it's unfair, but that does not give them the right to send me hate mail, saying that foreigners are criminals and they should be sent back home.
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30.09.2011, 21:30
| | Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]
Have you seen the new advert running in the Swiss Press:
Join the UDC/SVP
so your child
is not the only Swiss
in his/her class?
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