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Old 24.07.2007, 13:22
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Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters]

Can anybody who speaks German help me understand what exactly this initiative is about. I can't seem to find any information in English and it's a tad confusing trying to use my minimal german along with google translate.

www.ausschaffungsinitiative.ch

From an ad in today's "20 Minuten" (which is kind of strange as the picture show's a bunch of white sheep kicking a black sheep out of Switzerland)


"Sicherheit schaffen. Mit der Ausschaffungsinitiative können Ausländer, die in der schweiz schwere Verbrechen begehen, endlich konsequent des landes verweisen. So schaffen wir mehr Sicherheit für unsere Kinder, Frauen und Männer."

Thanks.
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Old 24.07.2007, 13:28
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Can anybody who speaks German help me understand what exactly this initiative is about. I can't seem to find any information in English and it's a tad confusing trying to use my minimal german along with google translate.

www.ausschaffungsinitiative.ch

From an ad in today's "20 Minuten" (which is kind of strange as the picture show's a bunch of white sheep kicking a black sheep out of Switzerland)


"Sicherheit schaffen. Mit der Ausschaffungsinitiative können Ausländer, die in der schweiz schwere Verbrechen begehen, endlich konsequent des landes verweisen. So schaffen wir mehr Sicherheit für unsere Kinder, Frauen und Männer."

Thanks.
Its an SVP initiative, saw this in Der Bund this morning. Basically its all to do with kicking out the "black sheep" ; i.e. social undesirables & foreigners that get convicted of felonies ... however am sure there is a subtext to the picture ... pathetic really
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Old 24.07.2007, 13:42
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

at least they bothered this time to get their site done in more than just German. 19/10 for bad web design though
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:11
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Yep, it's about "consistently deporting foreign criminals to ensure security for our children, women and men" (no Swiss commit serious criminal offences). The image suggests to the typical SVP voter that this will cleanse the country off non-whites, who presumably commit all the crime. I suspect the SVP definition of 'black' also includes 'Jugos' (non-Swiss youth of Yogoslav parentage).

Also being discussed in the white and non-white foreigners thread...
White & Non White foreigners..
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:16
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Yep, it's about "consistently deporting foreign criminals to ensure security for our children, women and men" (no Swiss commit serious criminal offences). The image suggests to the typical SVP voter that this will cleanse the country off non-whites, who presumably commit all the crime. I suspect the SVP definition of 'black' also includes 'Jugos' (non-Swiss youth of Yogoslav parentage).
quote this morning from a Swiss colleague after I showed him the link :

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Boah, it's pathetic have never seen the add but heard about the initiative….. It's about kicking foreigners out of the country when committing crimes. In case of non adults there shall even be a clause to kick out the whole family when youngsters play ganster…
I wonder where they want to send families of young criminal swiss citizens…????
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:12
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

You'll find a brief explanation of the initiative here.
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:18
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

The concept itself is nothing I would worry about. Why would it bother you that foreigner criminals will be deported? Should the swiss just cram everyone into swiss prisions so we can all pay for them?

Sure, this doesn't solve the cause of the criminality, but principally I have nothing against criminals being deported.

Now the execution of the concept might be where things get dodgy.
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:22
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

That's more what I was curious about. I have no problem with the Swiss kicking out murderers, rapists, etc. That might very well be the angle that the SVP is presenting. I would like to know what the fine print says, exactly what all the initiative entails.

Regardless, the cartoon that goes with it I find deplorable.

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The concept itself is nothing I would worry about. Why would it bother you that foreigner criminals will be deported? Should the swiss just cram everyone into swiss prisions so we can all pay for them?

Sure, this doesn't solve the cause of the criminality, but principally I have nothing against criminals being deported.

Now the execution of the concept might be where things get dodgy.
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:45
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Now the execution of the concept might be where things get dodgy.
Please god, let's not start debating capital punishment .
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:17
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Its an SVP initiative, saw this in Der Bund this morning. Basically its all to do with kicking out the "black sheep" ; i.e. social undesirables & foreigners that get convicted of felonies ... however am sure there is a subtext to the picture ... pathetic really
While I'm most definitely not an SVP voter, the proposed new law isn't really as extraordinary is it may look at first glance. Switzerland has extremely mild laws when it comes to asylum seekers and legal aliens who commit serious crimes. I don't know of any other country in the world who will let immigrants that committed murder stay in the country or let them in again after a few years of being banned from coming back. In France, for example, it's common practice to deport whole families if minors in that family commit serious crimes. You can get deported from the US very quickly, too. And former legal aliens who became British citizens can lose their citizenship and get kicked out if they are convicted under the terrorist act - an idea that initially was included in the initiative as well but went too far even for the SVP.

I might still vote against the initiative, though, mainly because it was initiated by the SVP.
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:31
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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I might still vote against the initiative, though, mainly because it was initiated by the SVP.

Surely you should consider an initiative on its merits and make your decision accordingly, irrespective of who proposed it ?
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Old 24.07.2007, 16:22
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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Surely you should consider an initiative on its merits and make your decision accordingly, irrespective of who proposed it ?
True, but if I'm not 100% convinced of its merits I tend to vote according to my preferred parties' programs.

And as far as SVP initiatives go: I think it's save to say "if in doubt, throw it out".

Last edited by dawiz; 24.07.2007 at 16:34.
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Old 24.07.2007, 15:48
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

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I might still vote against the initiative, though, mainly because it was initiated by the SVP.
Thankfully, this is what most Swiss generally do .
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Old 27.10.2007, 21:44
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

This recent political campaign reminds me of George Orwell's book Animal Farm...four legs good, two legs bad.

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Its an SVP initiative, saw this in Der Bund this morning. Basically its all to do with kicking out the "black sheep" ; i.e. social undesirables & foreigners that get convicted of felonies ... however am sure there is a subtext to the picture ... pathetic really
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Old 01.11.2007, 17:18
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

There's a nice article at FT about Swiss politics, though maybe it's not very interesting for some because it mentions things you probably know :P

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66bf2872-8...0779fd2ac.html
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Old 01.11.2007, 17:43
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

interestingly enough, our neighbour has recently been kicked off the local list for the Schweizer Demokrats. (he is a wanker in real life)

although not as hard core as our friends following Blocher, its interesting to read their manifesto all the same -

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2. Eidgenossenschaft statt Parallelgesellschaft
Die grosse Zahl nicht assimilierbarer Asylanten aus exotischen Ländern verändert unseren Volkscharakter. Die Schweiz muss für Illegale und dreiste Einschleicher unattraktiv werden. Wir fordern einen besseren Schutz der Schweizergrenze und eine Justiz, die härter und konsequenter gegen Asylmissbräuche vorgeht. Zudem verlangen wir Asyl auf Zeit. Wer nicht mehr verfolgt und bedroht ist, muss unser Land wieder verlassen. Eingebürgert darf nur werden, wer sich unseren Sitten und Gebräuchen anpasst.
the other drivel is similarly amusing ......
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Old 01.11.2007, 17:55
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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interestingly enough, our neighbour has recently been kicked off the local list for the Schweizer Demokrats. (he is a wanker in real life)

although not as hard core as our friends following Blocher, its interesting to read their manifesto all the same -
eh, come again? the SD are, if anything, more hardcore than the SVP. An Expample is their scary popular initiative to limit the foreign population in Switzerland to 18% back in the 90s....
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Old 01.11.2007, 18:19
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Re: Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep posters]

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interestingly enough, our neighbour has recently been kicked off the local list for the Schweizer Demokrats. (he is a wanker in real life)

although not as hard core as our friends following Blocher, its interesting to read their manifesto all the same - the other drivel is similarly amusing ......
Polorise - See this article: Far-right crushed by success of People's Party.
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Old 17.08.2007, 15:32
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Re: Security Creation Initiative

Here's the SVP worrying about how to deal with all them criminal "Black" sheep when their leaders' the biggest crook of the lot!
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Old 07.09.2007, 10:45
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Switzerland: Europe's heart of Darkness?

The Independent's take on the SVP...

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

"It will be the first such law in Europe since the Nazi practice of Sippenhaft – kin liability – whereby relatives of criminals were held responsible for their crimes and punished equally"
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