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Old 13.01.2011, 12:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Public rifle range. Converting them back to allow automatic fire is apparently easy for anyone of mechanical skill (read 10 year old an up with Lego Technik experience). If this scares you, you know what you have to do February 13.
Seems to be a fairly arbitrary distinction:

- Automatic: Good for killing people
- Semi-automatic: Good for use on a range

Would that I could vote. That's going to take another few years and some effort at Swiss German.
  #202  
Old 13.01.2011, 12:56
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Seems to be a fairly arbitrary distinction:

- Automatic: Good for killing people
- Semi-automatic: Good for use on a range

Would that I could vote. That's going to take another few years and some effort at Swiss German.
The distinction is somewhat arbitrary I agree. And I don't really see why people would buy one to go to a shooting range, as there are sports rifles which are much better adapted for that puropose.

There is however a point to controlling some kinds of weapons more closely (allready the case in Switzerland, thank God) such as, among others, fully automatic weapons, sniper rifles, silencers, armor piercing and dum dum ammo etc. as they are, comparatively, more dangerous than the others.
  #203  
Old 13.01.2011, 13:14
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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fully automatic weapons, sniper rifles, silencers, armor piercing and dum dum ammo etc. as they are, comparatively, more dangerous than the others.
fully automatic rifles, i can sort of understand from a safety point of view (harder to control, more mayhem in case of accidents). i think it would be nice to have silencers be legal.

i also thought it didn't make much sense to ban hollow point bullets e.g. more humane kills when hunting, better stopping power when used by police, less likely to penetrate walls and kill random people.

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What purpose does the 'civilian' version have?
normally makes it legal to sell as fully automatic weapons are usually highly restricted.
  #204  
Old 13.01.2011, 13:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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normally makes it legal to sell as fully automatic weapons are usually highly restricted.
I understand the legal reason.

But why not ban semi-automatics?

Or make manufacturers seek certification as 'sports models'.
  #205  
Old 13.01.2011, 13:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I understand the legal reason.

But why not ban semi-automatics?
because normally things are not banned by default and are then banned if there is a good reason to ban them.
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  #206  
Old 13.01.2011, 13:58
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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because normally things are not banned by default and are then banned if there is a good reason to ban them.
The same reason surely applies as for automatics?
  #207  
Old 13.01.2011, 14:01
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Does the intended legislation include RPGs?
  #208  
Old 13.01.2011, 14:13
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

My predictions: it's going to be a close vote.

After taking a poll in my English classes, the pros barely beat the contras. The older people are more contra, the younger are pro.

Since it's usually the older people who come out and vote, it's going to be at tough call.
  #209  
Old 13.01.2011, 14:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Does the intended legislation include RPGs?
There are hardly any RPGs in Switzerland, but rumour has it that some of the older folks still have some of the rifle grenades they nicked during their service... And those can be shot with a Stgw 57 and you do not need it to be full auto
  #210  
Old 13.01.2011, 14:44
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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rumour has it that some of the older folks still have some of the rifle grenades they nicked during their service... And those can be shot with a Stgw 57 and you do not need it to be full auto
In any case, it takes about 5 minutes to switch a Stgw 57 from semi to full auto.

Tom
  #211  
Old 13.01.2011, 15:35
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The police for example uses the semi-automatic. Or security services guarding a cash transporter.
The police don't use the SIG Sturmgewehr as far as I know. Way too cumbersome and slow. Heckler & Koch MP5s are favored for most forces here.
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  #212  
Old 13.01.2011, 15:36
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yep - this is called "semi-automatic". If you think of Clint Eastwood's revolver in Dirty Harry - a semi-automatic rifle is just like that, except obviously a rifle.

"Automatic" would be like a machine gun, where it either fires multiple-shot 'bursts' (usually 3 rounds per trigger pull) or else keeps firing as long as you hold the trigger.
Which it doe`s
  #213  
Old 13.01.2011, 15:45
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The distinction is somewhat arbitrary I agree. And I don't really see why people would buy one to go to a shooting range, as there are sports rifles which are much better adapted for that puropose.

There is however a point to controlling some kinds of weapons more closely (allready the case in Switzerland, thank God) such as, among others, fully automatic weapons, sniper rifles, silencers, armor piercing and dum dum ammo etc. as they are, comparatively, more dangerous than the others.
If I go to the track with a VW beetle ,I wanna drive a Ferrari

Last edited by cannut; 13.01.2011 at 19:16.
  #214  
Old 13.01.2011, 15:47
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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There are hardly any RPGs in Switzerland, but rumour has it that some of the older folks still have some of the rifle grenades they nicked during their service... And those can be shot with a Stgw 57 and you do not need it to be full auto
Someone is pulling your legHand granade maybe

Last edited by cannut; 13.01.2011 at 15:59.
  #215  
Old 13.01.2011, 16:19
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I read the local papers and follow the discussions, and most of my friends are Swiss. The original initiative is about protecting innocent victims of domestic murder suicides; it's considered harder to take out the wife and kids without a gun. Many women's organizations firmly support it. It seems that many women "fear" their husband's access to his military issue weapon. Some politicians said "women who are afraid of their husbands can easily go and tell the police". A man who has clearly not understood this type of fear.

Statistics; I'm still searching. I believe the number of murder-suicide deaths in Switzerland is one of the highest per capita - even higher than the US which is quite alarming - and this together with several high profile cases is what triggered the referendum.

Lisa
You are very funny I still waiting for your search result
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

Last edited by cannut; 13.01.2011 at 16:48.
  #216  
Old 13.01.2011, 20:45
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Some semi-automatic rifles can be converted to full automatic fire quickly and easily, too - such as the SLR (or L1A1) used by the Australian Army before they got the Steyr. A matchstick and about ten minutes, and you can fire even faster than the semi-auto rate of 20 rounds a minute ...

As for semi-automatic weapons at a firing range, there are many timed matches (ie, you have a certain amount of time to fire your set number of shots) or even moving / turning targets that also operate on a timer. All depends the sort of thing you enjoy.
Of course, you could be like my mother & step-father and also enjoy black powder shooting - real cap & ball stuff, where they have to pour in the powder & filler, put the patch over the barrel, put the ball on top and shove it all down ... firing cap on the nipple, cock and aim ... BOOOOOOMMMM! Very different sound to modern cartridges ...
  #217  
Old 13.01.2011, 21:06
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I read the local papers and follow the discussions, and most of my friends are Swiss. The original initiative is about protecting innocent victims of domestic murder suicides; it's considered harder to take out the wife and kids without a gun. Many women's organizations firmly support it. It seems that many women "fear" their husband's access to his military issue weapon. Some politicians said "women who are afraid of their husbands can easily go and tell the police". A man who has clearly not understood this type of fear.

Statistics; I'm still searching. I believe the number of murder-suicide deaths in Switzerland is one of the highest per capita - even higher than the US which is quite alarming - and this together with several high profile cases is what triggered the referendum.

Lisa
This part is serious, and not at all funny.
I agree with it.
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  #218  
Old 13.01.2011, 21:25
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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This part is serious, and not at all funny.
I agree with it.
I am sure, many women fear there husbands access to a hatched to .And I think thats not funny to
  #219  
Old 13.01.2011, 21:58
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

There are many women in countries around the world who fear their husband's access to alcohol, with the bruises and broken bones to justify this fear.
  #220  
Old 13.01.2011, 22:00
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Yes, that as well.
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