Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #421  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:19
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Zug, was a man with a police jacket on.. one incident...
outlaw guns and see what happens.
learn from countries that have, bye bye freedom
Yes I have to admit, the UK is one of the most oppressed places in the world since the EU forced them to put more gun controls in place.
  #422  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:19
Suisse2008's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Genf/Waadt
Posts: 298
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 262 Times in 134 Posts
Suisse2008 has earned some respectSuisse2008 has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
outlaw guns and see what happens.
learn from countries that have, bye bye freedom
Don't restrict guns and see what happens.
Hello Columbine, Jonesboro, Virginia Tech, and Tucson.
Learn from countries that do restrict them.
This user would like to thank Suisse2008 for this useful post:
  #423  
Old 25.01.2011, 18:31
jj muge's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: BE
Posts: 249
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 189 Times in 108 Posts
jj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputation
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
What has the EU to do with it?

A lot more then one realises...
if it is relevant to this discussion for you, could you explain the point? Or am I missing the obvious?
  #424  
Old 25.01.2011, 19:28
araqyl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich, West-side
Posts: 2,138
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,287 Times in 681 Posts
araqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

So, if police are not (law) enforcers right now, what are they?
I'm quite happy having the police enforce the law, thank you very much, and have no idea how a vote either way would alter this in any way.
  #425  
Old 25.01.2011, 19:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
What has the EU to do with it?

A lot more then one realises...
Come on, then. Spit it out!
  #426  
Old 25.01.2011, 19:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
Huh? What's the EU got to do with it?
Haven't you heard? They're been massing at all the crossings and passes, and are now poised to invade.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #427  
Old 25.01.2011, 21:18
araqyl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zurich, West-side
Posts: 2,138
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,287 Times in 681 Posts
araqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond reputearaqyl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Haven't you heard? They're been massing at all the crossings and passes, and are now poised to invade.
Ah, so all the people here urging a 'yes' vote - a fifth column?
  #428  
Old 25.01.2011, 21:53
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but that's simply not true. The initiative clearly states:
i.e. someone will have to prove that he needs a gun. Given the Swiss' love of rules and perfectionism this will most likely turn out to be an expensive bureaucratic nightmare.
Beside the point that murder-investigations also are "expensive bureaucratic nightmares", you may realize that exactly the phrase you quote can only be a general idea. For the real law(s), things have to be worked out like
> what means "prove that he needs the gun" in exact terms ?
> what about old weapons (without ammunition) purchased abroad ?
> what about museum-weapons ?
> hunters need weapons. What specification has a hunter to meet ?
> members of shooting clubs need a weapon. Will these weapons to be stored with their club ?

Just realize furthermore that the "old" Swiss military semi-automatic only is semi-automatic if the "plate" is on the white side outside position, if it is on the black side outside, it is a single-shot weapon. And already now, these weapons if to be purchased by a private person get the plate fixed with the black-side outside.

In short, the initiative text is done in a harsh way as the resulting law(s) will get watered down quite immensely, and much of the teeths will get torn out !
  #429  
Old 25.01.2011, 21:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 91
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 25 Posts
Aussieman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

In the US the states with the most problems have the stricktest gun laws...

States where there is tought respect has the least problems..

what problems do you really have here in Switzerland?

The only problem is the EU.. go digging ask people in the know you will see

vote yes, and find out... been there where its been done...

when things go wrong blame yourselves
  #430  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:12
jj muge's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: BE
Posts: 249
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 189 Times in 108 Posts
jj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputationjj muge has an excellent reputation
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
In the US the states with the most problems have the stricktest gun laws...
States where there is tought respect has the least problems..
what problems do you really have here in Switzerland?
The only problem is the EU.. go digging ask people in the know you will see
vote yes, and find out... been there where its been done...
when things go wrong blame yourselves
ok, thanks for the err... clarification.
  #431  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:18
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
In the US the states with the most problems have the stricktest gun laws...

States where there is tought respect has the least problems..

what problems do you really have here in Switzerland?

The only problem is the EU.. go digging ask people in the know you will see

vote yes, and find out... been there where its been done...

when things go wrong blame yourselves
No, those states (generally those with the largest cities) which had most problems are those who introduced fairly lenient gun laws.

No, the EU as such is not the problem.
  #432  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:21
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,226
Groaned at 2,458 Times in 1,778 Posts
Thanked 39,330 Times in 18,537 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Just realize furthermore that the "old" Swiss military semi-automatic only is semi-automatic if the "plate" is on the white side outside position, if it is on the black side outside, it is a single-shot weapon. And already now, these weapons if to be purchased by a private person get the plate fixed with the black-side outside.
Wait, I recall white side visible was semi, and black was full.

I learned how to take it apart and switch it, but that was 22 years ago.

Also, the quickest way to chamber a round is to slam the butt on the ground!

Tom
  #433  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
when things go wrong blame yourselves
So, using the accepted wisdom that "guns don't kill people, it's people that kill people" (which was clearly traveling towards us at high speed and just about to break horizon), then what you're about to do is propose as the smart thing to do, namely move everyone out of all those states with tough gun laws and most problems, and move them all to states with lax gun laws and least problems - the problems vanish virtually overnight! Cool!

Dang me, you're smart, Aussieman, darned smart!
  #434  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 91
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 25 Posts
Aussieman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Guess people will go down the road with blindfolds on....

enjoy the ride
  #435  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:43
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,510
Groaned at 45 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,136 Times in 1,363 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Beside the point that murder-investigations also are "expensive bureaucratic nightmares"[...]
Are implying that there will be less murders if the initiative is approved? Why should that happen?

Quote:
View Post
In short, the initiative text is done in a harsh way as the resulting law(s) will get watered down quite immensely, and much of the teeths will get torn out !
Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but I strongly doubt that someone will be able to obtain a gun legally just because he wants to like you stated above. The initiative clearly requires a "Bedarfsnachweis".
  #436  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
The only problem is the EU.. go digging ask people in the know you will see
Well, I tried asking, but he didn't give a comprehensible reply, so I gave up.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #437  
Old 25.01.2011, 23:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
he didn't give a comprehensible reply

so no changes there then
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #438  
Old 26.01.2011, 00:56
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Are implying that there will be less murders if the initiative is approved? Why should that happen?


Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but I strongly doubt that someone will be able to obtain a gun legally just because he wants to like you stated above. The initiative clearly requires a "Bedarfsnachweis".
A) The initiative may reduce the number of murders by 2 or 3 %. The merit of the initiative is that the soldiers no longer will be forced to store the weapon at home. It was a duty and NOT a right, even if those rightwing-"patriots" say otherwise
B) The "Bedarfsnachweis" will be fairly easy to obtain. Just as explained above by "Weise", the Initiative after having been approved will go into both chambers of parliament for the details be ironed out. People who will get such a weapon easily are
- hunters
- members of shooting clubs
- people who collect artifacts of historical value (without ammuniton)
and some others, depending on the resolutions in parliament
-
the Initiative got worded strongly exactly because its creators know that it in the end will get watered down in parliament
  #439  
Old 26.01.2011, 00:59
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Wait, I recall white side visible was semi, and black was full.

I learned how to take it apart and switch it, but that was 22 years ago.

Also, the quickest way to chamber a round is to slam the butt on the ground!

Tom
Sorry, I am still fairly sure that white was semi and black was single-shot. But it admittedly now is 17 years ago since I handed the thing back ! But I am sure that there was no "full" version (for the weapon I mean )
  #440  
Old 26.01.2011, 01:04
Suisse2008's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Genf/Waadt
Posts: 298
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 262 Times in 134 Posts
Suisse2008 has earned some respectSuisse2008 has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
In the US the states with the most problems have the stricktest gun laws...

States where there is tought respect has the least problems..
Sorry, unsubstantiated.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to see Switzerland become like Texas (or Virginia or Arizona,...) with the people having vigilante mentalities or making fortresses out of their homes.

Quote:
View Post
what problems do you really have here in Switzerland?
Not much compared to the US. But the initiative is meant to make the number of gun-related deaths even lower.
Closed Thread

Tags
army, guns, referendum, tradition, weapons




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Withdrawing your labour 4th Feb 2011 Ittigen Daily life 45 21.12.2010 11:52
..Moving near Rolle, Vaud in Feb 2011 swiss2011 Introductions 1 15.12.2010 10:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0