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Old 26.01.2011, 06:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

People of the world have respect for the Swiss, once you give up this tradition the respect will water down.
You have a low criminal element now this will change once you start restricting.
what has the EU got to do with it?
The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed.
A lot of things have watered down with the EU allready, the EU would love to get their hands on Swiss wealth to pay for all the Eastern block.

Don't throw away this tradition as the side effects of this are much greater then you can see right now.

believe what you want, I have first hand experience in this. all those foreigners who want you to give this up. send them home... that means those who vote yes.
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  #442  
Old 26.01.2011, 07:14
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed.
The EU has "left Switzerland alone" (as meaningless a phrase as I've ever seen, given the intimate trading, political and law enforcement links between the EU and Switzerland) because Switzerland has never applied to join the EU.
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  #443  
Old 26.01.2011, 09:49
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed.
EU and CH had always carefully courted each other but never consummated. I guess you never heard of the bilateral accords or Schengen. Your crazy idea of the need of an armed populace to avoid a supposed "EU takeover" smacks of a paranoid survivalist mentality.

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believe what you want, I have first hand experience in this. all those foreigners who want you to give this up. send them home... that means those who vote yes.
The initiative did not arise from "foreigners". And the "foreigners" cannot vote yes (or no). This will be our decision, pure and simple.
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  #444  
Old 26.01.2011, 10:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Every reason I have read here I have heard before...

This is the start of a snowball rolling, and it will keep rolling till it's so big no one can stop it...

Stop fooling yourselves...

This is just the beginning...

I know what you will say about this now too... please keep your blindfolds on it makes it so easy down the road...

so please vote yes

for those without a blindfold please vote no

there will be a day when you can say he told us so...

you will see, Swiss customs will one day only be a pub discusion... lol
  #445  
Old 26.01.2011, 11:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Every reason I have read here I have heard before...

This is the start of a snowball rolling, and it will keep rolling till it's so big no one can stop it...

Stop fooling yourselves...

This is just the beginning...

I know what you will say about this now too... please keep your blindfolds on it makes it so easy down the road...

so please vote yes

for those without a blindfold please vote no

there will be a day when you can say he told us so...

you will see, Swiss customs will one day only be a pub discusion... lol
Eh? About 2 o'clock.
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  #446  
Old 26.01.2011, 11:24
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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In the US the states with the most problems have the stricktest gun laws...

States where there is tought respect has the least problems..

what problems do you really have here in Switzerland?

The only problem is the EU.. go digging ask people in the know you will see

vote yes, and find out... been there where its been done...

when things go wrong blame yourselves

classic case of confusing causation with correlation. the states with the most gun control also tend to have the highest populations, the largest ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and the largest cities.

wyoming and montana arent safe places because theyre armed, theyre safe places because people live 8miles from eachother (exaggerating obviouisly but i think you get my point)

i wrote about this in more detail in a previous post ... but im too lazy to restate the whole thing.
  #447  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:52
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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classic case of confusing causation with correlation. the states with the most gun control also tend to have the highest populations, the largest ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and the largest cities.
(...)
i wrote about this in more detail in a previous post ... but im too lazy to restate the whole thing.


Sums it up pretty well, doesn't it.
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  #448  
Old 26.01.2011, 13:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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classic case of confusing causation with correlation. the states with the most gun control also tend to have the highest populations, the largest ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and the largest cities.
So gun crime is perpetrated mainly by urban ethnic types?

In that case, there's our solution! Only allow white people in rural areas to have guns, and gun crime will vanish.

I don't know why nobody thought of that already...
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  #449  
Old 26.01.2011, 21:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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B) The "Bedarfsnachweis" will be fairly easy to obtain. Just as explained above by "Weise", the Initiative after having been approved will go into both chambers of parliament for the details be ironed out. People who will get such a weapon easily are
- hunters
- members of shooting clubs
- people who collect artifacts of historical value (without ammuniton)
and some others, depending on the resolutions in parliament
-
the Initiative got worded strongly exactly because its creators know that it in the end will get watered down in parliament
Exactly.

Australia (well, New South Wales anyway - when uniform national gun laws were suggested and introduced, the NSW laws had to be relaxed to meet them) has fairly strict gun laws. Still, as a 13-year-old, I was able to go out and shoot regularly at the pistol club (with firearms owned by my parents & adult friends). Then, when I turned 18, I could simply apply for my pistol shooting licence and, once it arrived, go out and purchase an absurdly-large range of pistols - many of which were actually pretty useless for target shooting, as they were massive overpowered things that would strain the muscles in your arms unless you were Arnold Schwarzenegger - before you pulled the trigger.
Yes, you had to turn up regularly and shoot a match at your pistol club - six times a year (it was 12 in NSW before the national laws!). Then you could happily have your pistol at home (although by law it had to be locked in a safe that was securely fixed to the building, to which only the owner of the pistol(s) had the key/combination, and ammunition stored in a separate locked cupboard).

Also, as I mentioned before, in Australia farmers could also get firearms (rifles, shotguns) fairly easily - as quite often injured animals need to be put down, or feral animals have to be destroyed.
Oh, and hunters could also apply for licences, but I don't know the exact details of their licence requirements.

So, if firearms are that easy to get in Australia, I don't imagine the 'requirements' for Switzerland will be too strict for people who want to shoot ... rather than just have a gun at home for 'protection'.
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  #450  
Old 26.01.2011, 22:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

This is Swiss heratige being played with, don't let them change it... for whatever reasons, the system you have works and works well... keep it.

as I said before, once you accept this the road back is a hard one.
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  #451  
Old 26.01.2011, 22:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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This is Swiss heratige being played with, don't let them change it... for whatever reasons, the system you have works and works well... keep it.

as I said before, once you accept this the road back is a hard one.

Woud you like to see me colection of mushroms?

I did dried them meself I did.

The EU does want to take them away... Out of me cold dead hands!

and here is me candle I made it from me own ear wax I did. I did get it ready for when the oil is run out and thay try to send us all to there deeth camp in Arizona I did.

Theyll nevar take me alive!

Arooooooooooooo!
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  #452  
Old 26.01.2011, 22:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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People of the world have respect for the Swiss, once you give up this tradition the respect will water down.
You have a low criminal element now this will change once you start restricting.
what has the EU got to do with it?
The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed.
A lot of things have watered down with the EU allready, the EU would love to get their hands on Swiss wealth to pay for all the Eastern block.

Don't throw away this tradition as the side effects of this are much greater then you can see right now.

believe what you want, I have first hand experience in this. all those foreigners who want you to give this up. send them home... that means those who vote yes.
Switzerland, in regard to police and armed forces will have as many weapons as now. Stiff restrictions by the standards of his days were implemented by General Ulrich Wille (senior) between 1914 and 1918 . The idea that the soldiers had/have to take their weapons home at the end of a service came from him then and is NOT a tradition.

People who vote are CH citizens and cannot be sent anywhere. THIS is a basic principle of the constitution of the Swiss Confederation
  #453  
Old 26.01.2011, 22:44
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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This is Swiss heratige being played with, don't let them change it... for whatever reasons, the system you have works and works well... keep it.

as I said before, once you accept this the road back is a hard one.
No, it is NOT "Swiss heritage" as
> the rules in regard to the military weapons are less than 100 yrs old
> most people in this country never had a weapon except that military thing
> the military weapon is with you for some two decades of your life, but
not after you have returned the military stuff
  #454  
Old 27.01.2011, 00:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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This is Swiss heratige being played with, don't let them change it... for whatever reasons, the system you have works and works well... keep it.

as I said before, once you accept this the road back is a hard one.
No no no no no - there is no road back - this is it - everything is catastrophically gone forever- it's the end of the world as we know it - are you so blind that you don't understand that?



P.S. pity about your double Category5 Freudian slip there
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the system you have works
...
once you accept this
Probably best you get another signin and try again, eh

And remember - with the the next signin, you must think in Swiss



Go Sheila, go!
  #455  
Old 27.01.2011, 01:01
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

It's not going to pass so stop worrying about it.

(or maybe that's exactly why you should)
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  #456  
Old 27.01.2011, 01:05
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It's not going to pass so stop worrying about it.

(or maybe that's exactly why you should)
It this initiative does not pass, I worry about what next. You see, things cannot go on like this. The political right rethorically supporting the army but not being ready to give the finance needed. The political left opposing everything in regard to the army. The army stuck in outdated structures and rules.

Exactly the refusal of this initative will lead to the abolishment of the army in total. An acceptance will provide the chance to turn it into a professional army as usual in Western Europe (except Germany, Austria and Switzerland)
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  #457  
Old 27.01.2011, 01:05
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Every reason I have read here I have heard before... This is the start of a snowball rolling, and it will keep rolling till it's so big no one can stop it... Stop fooling yourselves... This is just the beginning... I know what you will say about this now too... please keep your blindfolds on it makes it so easy down the road... so please vote yes... for those without a blindfold please vote no... there will be a day when you can say he told us so... you will see, Swiss customs will one day only be a pub discusion... lol
Do you go drinking with William Tell by any chance?

.
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  #458  
Old 27.01.2011, 01:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Do you go drinking with William Tell by any chance?
Wilhelm Tell would be in favour of the initative .......................
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  #459  
Old 27.01.2011, 01:18
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

How naive of you, constitutions can be changed. Probably the only reason the Swiss still have one is exactly because they are armed.

If this thing goes through (which in my hopefull opinion it will not) then I think that I shall seek another horizon. Watching another great country sink into the mud will be more than my heart could stand.
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Old 27.01.2011, 01:47
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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No, it is NOT "Swiss heritage"
Being required to store the military rifle at home isn't, but having the right to own a gun certainly is.

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It's not going to pass so stop worrying about it.
I truly hope that you are right and that especially the smaller, more rural cantons will kill this idiocy for good.

Besides we shouldn't underestimate the voting power of the many Swiss people having a (hand)gun somewhere in their home 'just in case'. I don't think that they want those guns being confiscated. I wouldn't be surprised if there's once again a huge difference between the published opinion and the public opinion.

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It this initiative does not pass, I worry about what next. You see, things cannot go on like this. The political right rethorically supporting the army but not being ready to give the finance needed. The political left opposing everything in regard to the army. The army stuck in outdated structures and rules.
The fate of the Swiss Army will not depend on where the rifles are stored. That's merely a question of logistics whose real significance is blown totally out of proportion by both sides.

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Wilhelm Tell would be in favour of the initative .......................
In your dreams, my dear, in your dreams.

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How naive of you, constitutions can be changed. Probably the only reason the Swiss still have one is exactly because they are armed.
Well, unfortunately many people don't understand the relation between people being the sovereign and having the right to arm themselves. It's downright scary how easily they're ready to give up their rights.

Last edited by Mark75; 27.01.2011 at 03:14. Reason: added last paragraph
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