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Old 27.01.2011, 17:25
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

This is not the US where some people think that "it's my god-given dang right to own a gun and anything else will mean the commies will take over".

We are not paranoid. Neither are we totally enamoured with guns. But we do like our shooting sports and hunting, we respect our army, AND we like to live in a secure, modern society without the wildwest mentality. This is what the initiative had in mind.
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  #482  
Old 27.01.2011, 19:43
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Not quite. Currently, owning a gun is a right. If the initiative was approved it would no longer be a right but a privilege. Big difference.
In that case, driving a car is not a right, but a privilege - some serious restrictions and regulations around that one!
Hang on, maybe that's because of how dangerous cars can be? Nah, just some bureaucrat trying to block me from my god-given right to drive a massive lump of steel around without any form of licencing or control! Bloody fascists!!
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  #483  
Old 27.01.2011, 19:48
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Is owning a gun specifically mentioned as a right, or does it just count as a personal possesion?
It's not specifically mentioned in the law or the constitution. Like any other item everyone has the right to buy or own a gun unless it is restricted by some law. The current gun law basically prevents people with a criminal record or people who are considered to be dangerous from buying a gun which is a perfectly fine IMHO.

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[...]AND we like to live in a secure, modern society without the wildwest mentality.
We already do. We don't need no stinkin' initiative for that.

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In that case, driving a car is not a right, but a privilege - some serious restrictions and regulations around that one!
Hang on, maybe that's because of how dangerous cars can be? Nah, just some bureaucrat trying to block me from my god-given right to drive a massive lump of steel around without any form of licencing or control! Bloody fascists!!
That's a classical non sequitur. Driving a car is not the equivalent to owning a gun.
You don't need a permit from the government to buy or own a car. As long as you don't drive on public roads, nobody cares if your car is insured, you need no license plates, no driving license, nada.
  #484  
Old 27.01.2011, 20:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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In that case, driving a car is not a right, but a privilege - some serious restrictions and regulations around that one!
Hang on, maybe that's because of how dangerous cars can be? Nah, just some bureaucrat trying to block me from my god-given right to drive a massive lump of steel around without any form of licencing or control! Bloody fascists!!
I remember a lot of people in the UK's Customs and Excise were very unhappy when the department's charter was changed.

So these poor chaps and chapesses, since the late 1990s , are no longer allowed to ride roughshod, that is, you run over with your horse someone who's trying to run away from you; also banned was the winging of suspects, where you would shoot them through the foot or leg non-lethally, but so they couldn't run away, letting you chase someone else (maybe even ride roughshod over them), and come back later for the wingee (who's presumably still where you left him, hopping round in small circles).

ISYN!

They were gutted, bless 'em, gutted. And then they had to fight to keep their jobs because of some dodgy PFI thing going on in the smoke-filled rooms

When I think of them, it always reminds me of this...
I guess Swiss Guns Law and Swiss Cvil Servants will too, in future


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  #485  
Old 27.01.2011, 20:49
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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We already do. We don't need no stinkin' initiative for that.
No, not completely yet. We do need it... unless your definition of a secure civilized society includes accepting someone like Rey-Bellet getting killed every once in a while.
  #486  
Old 27.01.2011, 21:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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No, not completely yet. We do need it... unless your definition of a secure civilized society includes accepting someone like Rey-Bellet getting killed every once in a while.
Yes it does. Because the only way to ensure that such tragic events cannot happen under any circumstances is a full-blown police state where every single person is under total surveillance 24 hours a day.

I do not want to live in such a state. Do you?
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  #487  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

SVP and I agree this time... I can't believe I just wrote that
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  #488  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yes it does. Because the only way to ensure that such tragic events cannot happen under any circumstances is a full-blown police state where every single person is under total surveillance 24 hours a day.

I do not want to live in such a state. Do you?
Err, straw man argument. Never asked for 100% reduction ("under any circumstances"). We want to live in a state that would reduce the possibility of Rey-Bellet's murder and still enjoy our sports and keep our military.
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  #489  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:25
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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No, not completely yet. We do need it... unless your definition of a secure civilized society includes accepting someone like Rey-Bellet getting killed every once in a while.
And how exactly do you figure that this would have prevented it?

Tom
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  #490  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:29
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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SVP and I agree this time... I can't believe I just wrote that
You mean you agree with sth. that is not the issue in this vote?

Again: The initiative is not about banning guns.

BTW, the poster implies that foreigners are mustache wearing gangsters. I would abstain from posting it on a forum mainly frequented by foreigners.
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  #491  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yes it does. Because the only way to ensure that such tragic events cannot happen under any circumstances is a full-blown police state where every single person is under total surveillance 24 hours a day.

I do not want to live in such a state. Do you?
Actually I don't mind it is becoming the norm in London-has really helped reduce crime.
  #492  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:40
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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BTW, the poster implies that foreigners are mustache wearing gangsters. I would abstain from posting it on a forum mainly frequented by foreigners.
Hmmm, I've ALWAYS had (at least) a mustache while living in CH!

Of course, I haven't been a foreigner since 1997!

And, I've NEVER been a gangster (I hate Rap ).

Tom
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  #493  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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We already do. We don't need no stinkin' initiative for that.

Sorry just kind of reminded me of this:

  #494  
Old 27.01.2011, 22:59
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

or this- we don't need no stinkin'

  #495  
Old 28.01.2011, 06:00
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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BTW, the poster implies that foreigners are mustache wearing gangsters. I would abstain from posting it on a forum mainly frequented by foreigners.
That poster also implies we all smoke stupid-looking little cigarettes, too - when I've never smoked a cigarette in my life!
  #496  
Old 28.01.2011, 06:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Again: The initiative is not about banning guns.
It is about banning guns for everyone except policemen (or other people who need a gun for work), gun dealers, licensed shooters, hunters and gun collectors.

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BTW, the poster implies that foreigners are mustache wearing gangsters. I would abstain from posting it on a forum mainly frequented by foreigners.
Where do you get the idea from that the poster depicts a foreigner?
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  #497  
Old 28.01.2011, 09:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It is about banning guns for everyone except policemen (or other people who need a gun for work), gun dealers, licensed shooters, hunters and gun collectors.
There is quite a big difference between saying that the initiative is about banning guns (all of 'em) and saying that the initiative is about restricting gun ownership to those people who have a legitimate reason and proper training.

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Where do you get the idea from that the poster depicts a foreigner?
Look at the picture: This ain't no Hans-Ueli.
Look at who paid for it: SVP
Look at who designed it:Alexander Segert, racist-poster-maker-extraordinaire

Plus: They (the SVP) used pretty much the same face for the campaign to support their anti-asylum-initiative a few years ago.
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  #498  
Old 28.01.2011, 09:39
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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BTW, the poster implies that foreigners are mustache wearing gangsters. I would abstain from posting it on a forum mainly frequented by foreigners.
Hold on a second... you mean to tell me that foreigners can read?! :-)

Last edited by Luc P; 28.01.2011 at 09:41. Reason: why not
  #499  
Old 28.01.2011, 09:50
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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There is quite a big difference between saying that the initiative is about banning guns (all of 'em) and saying that the initiative is about restricting gun ownership to those people who have a legitimate reason and proper training.
Yes! The difference is that they cannot manage to disarm the criminal elements (it's not likely that they apply for permits), but they can pass a law that would do just that to the law abiding citizens.

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Look at the picture: This ain't no Hans-Ueli.
...
Nope... but, it could be Giuseppe/Giovanni/Mario from Ticino... or David/Daniel/Louis from Geneva... just sayin'...
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Old 28.01.2011, 10:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Cheers Cariad123 and yes in some parts of BE it is still 2010.

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Nope... but, it could be Giuseppe/Giovanni/Mario from Ticino... or David/Daniel/Louis from Geneva... just sayin'...
The guy is quite popular…
swiss-firearms-vote-feb-13-2011-1f6710fef08b5898d0adc338af8e39a1.jpg


As the SVP newspaper SVP-Klartext puts it, “Those who disarm the swiss create a weapons monopoly for criminals and foreigners. Criminals and foreigners who own their weapon illegaly, will not register or "disarm" due to this initiative." It is difficult to let go.
But of course we should not focus on this, this argument is just the icing on the cake.
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