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  #501  
Old 28.01.2011, 11:58
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yes! The difference is that they cannot manage to disarm the criminal elements (it's not likely that they apply for permits), but they can pass a law that would do just that to the law abiding citizens.
But how many criminals use guns now? Presumably all the swiss crims have access to them, why are they not used? It's not like law abiding citizens are walking around with guns all the time in case they get jumped by a gun weilding hoodlum. Of the criminals that are carrying guns, they're more interested in shooting each other than your random civilian.

It's the tiny percentage of crime that people are most afraid of, the random mugging, rather than guarding for the far more likely event of being attacked by someone you know.
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  #502  
Old 28.01.2011, 12:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yes! The difference is that they cannot manage to disarm the criminal elements (it's not likely that they apply for permits), but they can pass a law that would do just that to the law abiding citizens.
Should I explain the difference between laws and law enforcement?

Law abiding citizens who are too lazy to get proper training and have firearms for "da funz", yes they should be disarmed. There are not many things more dangerous than a dabbler with a loaded gun. Especially for innocent bystanders.


Those who have a legit reason (such as sport or hunting) and are responsible-minded enough to get proper training are another matter, but you know that, don't you.

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Nope... but, it could be Giuseppe/Giovanni/Mario from Ticino... or David/Daniel/Louis from Geneva... just sayin'...
Could be yes, but I recognise dog-whistle politics when I see it.
  #503  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:36
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

You must realise that this inititive, if successfull, is 'the thin end of the wedge'. It starts in the same way for every nation that decides to limit citizen access to firearms. Once a begining has been made there is a turn of the screw every few years until only the police, the army and the criminals have guns. It's an administrative process of citizen control and oppression. In this case voted for by the citizens themselves. There has been sensible opinion written by both sides in this thread but surely everybody must realise that there are freedoms here under threat, it just seems like some people are just happy to let this happen because they simply see guns as undesirable. I repeat what I said when I first posted, having a gun is a responsibility and if you begin to start taking away responsibilities then, well what hope for society is there. By the way to those antis who mentioned that I know nothing of the Swiss constitution answer me this Article 36 Limitations of Fundamental Rights, (2) Limitations of fundamental rights have to be justified by public interest or by the protection of fundamental rights of others. Is this how you intend to disarm yourselves?
  #504  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:39
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Can we just lock every participant of this discussion up in this thread and never let them out? No need for a vote afterwards, I'll feel safer already..
  #505  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:47
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Lol nice one herc82, it has been getting a bit serious :-)
  #506  
Old 28.01.2011, 22:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I see some people here are seeing the light....

Now for the rest who just cannot see this....

if voted yes, it is the beginning of the end....

It is dagerous for criminals in der Schweiz, would you enter a house where the people are armed.... no....
it's easier to wait when they give their weapons away....
  #507  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:02
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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... It starts in the same way for every nation that decides to limit citizen access to firearms. Once a begining has been made there is a turn of the screw every few years until only the police, the army and the criminals have guns...
This sounds like typical paranoia stuff from the middle of the US. We are in the middle of Europe for goodness sake! So Switzerland has loose gun regulations. If our laws move toward European level regulations, then you say, "what hope for society is there"? Well, there's plenty of hope, our neighbours are doing just fine. Or to take another example, Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. I can guarantee you that the people of that country is not living under "oppression".
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Old 28.01.2011, 23:35
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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You must realise that this inititive, if successfull, is 'the thin end of the wedge'. It starts in the same way for every nation that decides to limit citizen access to firearms. Once a begining has been made there is a turn of the screw every few years until only the police, the army and the criminals have guns. It's an administrative process of citizen control and oppression. In this case voted for by the citizens themselves. There has been sensible opinion written by both sides in this thread but surely everybody must realise that there are freedoms here under threat, it just seems like some people are just happy to let this happen because they simply see guns as undesirable. I repeat what I said when I first posted, having a gun is a responsibility and if you begin to start taking away responsibilities then, well what hope for society is there. By the way to those antis who mentioned that I know nothing of the Swiss constitution answer me this Article 36 Limitations of Fundamental Rights, (2) Limitations of fundamental rights have to be justified by public interest or by the protection of fundamental rights of others. Is this how you intend to disarm yourselves?
"citizen control"? "oppression"? FYI, we are in Switzerland...paranoia like that is only valid in US....

and hope for society is defined by "freedom" to carry a weapon...please...

and what about the "freedom" of not being shoot by somebody on a hill with an army rifle?
  #509  
Old 28.01.2011, 23:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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So Switzerland has reasonable gun regulations.
Fixed that for ya.
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Old 28.01.2011, 23:41
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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People of the world have respect for the Swiss, once you give up this tradition the respect will water down.
You have a low criminal element now this will change once you start restricting.
what has the EU got to do with it?
The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed.
A lot of things have watered down with the EU allready, the EU would love to get their hands on Swiss wealth to pay for all the Eastern block.

Don't throw away this tradition as the side effects of this are much greater then you can see right now.

believe what you want, I have first hand experience in this. all those foreigners who want you to give this up. send them home... that means those who vote yes.
"The EU has left Switzerland alone because they fear peoples who are armed."...are you high?
  #511  
Old 29.01.2011, 00:12
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Oh come on Osueco! Read up on your history of european politics and while you're at it try and find a decent clinical defintion of paranoia.
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Old 29.01.2011, 00:14
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

and I'm not talking about carrying a weapon, my point is about owning one.
  #513  
Old 29.01.2011, 02:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Oh come on Osueco! Read up on your history of european politics and while you're at it try and find a decent clinical defintion of paranoia.
born and bread...friendo!
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Old 29.01.2011, 10:35
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

As I said previously, heard all this before...

this is how it starts, and slowly they will push the knife in further...

wake up people, why do you keep defending this notion...

when those who cannot see wake up it will be too late...

keep making your excuses...

I sit back and watch... lol
  #515  
Old 29.01.2011, 10:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As I said previously, heard all this before...

this is how it starts, and slowly they will push the knife in further...

wake up people, why do you keep defending this notion...

when those who cannot see wake up it will be too late...

keep making your excuses...

I sit back and watch... lol
SHOO SHOO you big'ol troll!!!

So yes, vote NO and when it's time the arms-collectors will come to the rescue when...eh...eh...
  #516  
Old 29.01.2011, 12:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

aren't you afraid that today, people with a rifle feel responsible for their equipment and behave because it's from the swiss army and they're part of it, and when it's banned, it will just be weapons without supervision?
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Old 29.01.2011, 12:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Cariad123, have you been here long ? It's a very safe and peaceful country, there's no need. There's very little violence and everything is carefully controlled, which is good.

Oh and to be groaned because I feel deeply about the fundamental good of banning all firearms ? I'll consider those groans you gave me a badge of honor !

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  #518  
Old 29.01.2011, 12:13
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Wear that badge sista!
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Old 29.01.2011, 12:16
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Wear that badge sista!
Yeah, Sky: Keep up the good work, and you might even have to compete with me!
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Old 29.01.2011, 12:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

also the UDC is above 30% in the recent polls, should it be worrying? Or it goes along with the mood those times, with the votes on foreigners, firearms, the EUR fears etc...
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