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Old 29.01.2011, 13:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Crikey, 27 pages is a lot to read...
I used to use firearms when I was in the Scouts and as a kid, you really do feel the responsibility of using one (y'know, what it can do to people and how to take every seemingly unnessecary precaution to make sure that never happens, etc), so they can be a useful teaching aid in certain contexts.
However, I also really don't see the point in having one at home - they should only be used at a properly-made range and they should be kept there with the appropriate security to match.
Regarding the rapid mobilisation of the militia in the event of a snap invasion (go Liechtenstein!), even in Britain in 1940, off-duty squaddies left their guns at the barracks and Britain at that point was faicng a possible invasion.
On the other hand, tighter regulation of firearms as a whole doesn't always mean lower gun crime - in the UK after pistols were banned, gun crime rocketed. The police lost many of their contacts in the form of registered gun owners who were occassionally offered something illegal in the way of a gun. As such, gun running into Britain was almost unchecked for a period.
simplified statistics rocks!!!!
  #542  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:31
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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simplified statistics rocks!!!!
Looks like you're running out of arguments.
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  #543  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:31
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Thank you, Mark75 & Leni

guess you don't have blindfolds on like some here...
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  #544  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Thank you, Mark75 & Leni

guess you don't have blindfolds on like some here...
Are you still here?

I thought you were leaving.
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  #545  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:39
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Hey, DB - I like it when someone thanks me!!
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  #546  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:45
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Looks like you're running out of arguments.
the ones like Aussieman? yes I tried though...
  #547  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

how does one change a people:

divide and conquer

working well here...
  #548  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Works well everywhere.
  #549  
Old 29.01.2011, 13:56
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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how does one change a people:

divide and conquer

working well here...
The EU dug the Röschtigraben?

Well, you learn something every day!
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  #550  
Old 29.01.2011, 14:44
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Why don't you all just move where you think it's safer and leave this place be.

There is hardly any misuse of firearms here.

but you will see.

blind leading the blind

welcome nwo
- Who exactly should move ?
- Where should people move to ?
- Why should people abstain from improving things ?


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That's exactly why this stupid iniative is completely unnecessary.

It will not make this country safer but it will cost billions of taxpayer money to buy up all the guns and for all the unneeded bureaucracy.
It will liberate the soldiers of the duty to take that piece of shit home, and to be kept responsible for that "piece ....." all the time. In spite of it being totally and absolutely useless and only consuming space.

Only a very small number of people really have "operational" weapons at home, and some of them will have to join a shooting club or a hunting club.

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Last edited by Wollishofener; 29.01.2011 at 14:58.
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  #551  
Old 29.01.2011, 14:45
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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also the UDC is above 30% in the recent polls, should it be worrying? Or it goes along with the mood those times, with the votes on foreigners, firearms, the EUR fears etc...
the polls show 29,5% NOT "above 30%"


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how does one change a people:

divide and conquer

working well here...
Who is "divided" ?
-- Divided opinions however are democracy
Who is conquering what ?


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Last edited by Wollishofener; 29.01.2011 at 14:56.
  #552  
Old 29.01.2011, 14:57
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It will liberate the soldiers of the duty to take that piece of shit home, and to be kept responsible for that "piece ....." all the time. In spite of it being totally and absolutely useless and only consuming space.
Hey, hey, hey, watch your language!

As I've mentioned before, if the initiative were only about where the army rifles are stored, I wouldn't care. But it isn't.

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Only a very small number of people really have "operational" weapons at home, and some of them will have to join a shooting club or a hunting club.
So why should we subject those people to endure all kind of bureaucratic (and most likely expensive) harassment despite the fact that they already use their weapons very responsibly?

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Why should people abstain from improving things ?
They shouldn't. But this initiative will not improve anything.

It will bring
- more bureaucracy
- huge costs to buy all those weapons
- less freedom (except for criminals)
- and if things go really bad, it will even lead to more gun crimes and less security, just like it happened in other places like the UK

Sometimes it would be really useful if people would start thinking for themselves instead of falling for all that scaremongering peddled by the media and some political parties.
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  #553  
Old 29.01.2011, 15:12
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Hey, hey, hey, watch your language!
I DID do so. But I see that the conservative side does NOT, not at all ! I mean if I see that some Australian immigrant urges locals with an opinion not his one to emigrate to wherever, if I see the insults used by people from SVP and other staunch reactionaries, and using the most insulting language possible, than it becomes obvious that only a CLEAR and STRAIGHT language is the thing of the present time


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As I've mentioned before, if the initiative were only about where the army rifles are stored, I wouldn't care. But it isn't.
-
Not only, but this is the centrepiece which counts


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So why should we subject those people to endure all kind of bureaucratic (and most likely expensive) harassment despite the fact that they already use their weapons very responsibly?
-
Most of "those people" endured all the bureaucracy of the shooting club and paid for this, so that for most, not much will change


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They shouldn't. But this initiative will not improve anything.

It will bring
- more bureaucracy
- huge costs to buy all those weapons
- less freedom (except for criminals)
- and if things go really bad, it will even lead to more gun crimes and less security, just like it happened in other places like the UK
-
> the bureaucracy already is existing, it only needs to be adapted
> not many costs as there will not be many weapons to be bought
> for most people the same freedom as up to now
> had the UK introduced the registration-duty (Meldepflicht) as is usual on the continent, before its weapons-law, they would NOT have had more gun crimes ! It is not the fault of the CH if some people in London have sh... in their head instead of brains


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Sometimes it would be really useful if people would start thinking for themselves instead of falling for all that scaremongering peddled by the media and some political parties.
-
strangely enough, both sides use the same scaremongering. So you ought to have written "most political parties" and instead of "by the media" "by many of the media" !
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  #554  
Old 29.01.2011, 15:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I mean if I see that some Australian immigrant urges locals with an opinion not his one to emigrate to wherever
You tell 'em, Mr Hofener!
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  #555  
Old 29.01.2011, 16:16
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Seems some just don't look beyond their noses

simple facts:

every country where this sort of thing started this way,
have eventually banned weapons or types of...

results of this:

Crime goes sky high, rapes occur much more frequent.
most people have to live in their own jail in order to feel safe.

Swiss people, really should looks seriously at the real figures, not the one they want you to see.

The criminals in other countries really want you to say yes to this, because then they can start taking Switzerland over...

there are many countries that don't have weapons at home, if one objects go live in one of those, and slowly find out the true cost of what will happen.

The knowing that you have these weapons at home deters many a criminal from coming here... they are scared shitless of Swiss people, don't chance this...
  #556  
Old 29.01.2011, 16:50
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Well, in any case, we filled out our forms today.

2x "NO"

Tom
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  #557  
Old 29.01.2011, 18:26
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Well, in any case, we filled out our forms today.

2x "NO"

Tom
We won! Ours was 3x YES!
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  #558  
Old 29.01.2011, 18:57
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Crime goes sky high, rapes occur much more frequent.
most people have to live in their own jail in order to feel safe.
Ugh, more scaremongering with no facts to back it up.

Let's look at the firearms-related deaths in Europe
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/2/214.pdf

GB has been much aligned in this thread, but England has the lowest rate of firearms-related deaths with strict controls. Where is CH? No. 4 right behind another gun-loving country, Finland.

We are sick and ashamed of this sad statistic. That's why I vote yes.
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  #559  
Old 29.01.2011, 21:23
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Australia like England, safer???

Many more jail build in Australia, due to criminal increases since the gun ban.
Nearly every house has full security bars and windows because people don't feel safe anymore. Government protects the criminals.
you injure a burglar, and he can now sue you for time unable to work.
non of this happened like this before the gun ban.

I didn't think you Swiss were this silly to just accept this... this will not end here.

wake up people...
  #560  
Old 29.01.2011, 22:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

So, girlfriend asks:

"What's this about?" I say "restricting access to guns": "OK, no it IS.

"What a***oles came up with this?" (she asks): "The Greens, and other left-wingers." I respond.

"Who do you like?" (she asks): "the LEGA".

"Well, "he (Bignasca)'s an a****ole, as you know I've met him, but I agree in this case!"

Case closed.

Tom
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