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Old 31.01.2011, 15:43
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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If somebody wants to take their life, they will do so.
Red herring. The fact that there are other ways to commit suicide does not address the point that the studies show that firearms suicide would be reduced due to the initiative. And guns will remain legal, not banned.
  #602  
Old 31.01.2011, 15:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Red herring. The fact that there are other ways to commit suicide does not address the point that the studies show that firearms suicide would be reduced due to the initiative.
Hmm... what exactly is the benefit for society if people commit suicide by jumping in front of a train instead of shooting themselves?

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And guns will remain legal
Only for a few privileged groups of people. For the everyone else owning a gun would become illegal.
  #603  
Old 31.01.2011, 16:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

If suicide is a major problem in Switzerland, then the Swiss should be addressing the mental health issues that exist in the country, rather than the means by which people take their lives. Statistically it is quite possible that if firearms are more strictly controlled, the suicide rate by shooting might go down. But at what cost? Should suicide by bicycle become popular, that is people cycling their bikes into trams, oncoming traffic etc, should we place stricter controls on bike purchases. I am not trying to be facetious but if we follow some of the logic as displayed in this thread, then that is where we are heading. I would rather see that the friends and family of those who suspect that a loved one is contemplating suicide, have the gunption to get that person help, or sectioned.

As I pointed out earleir, you cannot legislate for people who are chemically imbalanced or depressed. Well you can, but they wont pay any attention.

As the EU retreats into a nannystate, with leftard Eco Greens devising new ways to emasculate us, I hope the Swiss will MTFU and refute this ever worrying trend.
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Old 31.01.2011, 16:12
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I want to vote YES, the firearms should be taken out of the equation. Normal people do not need firearms in a country like Switzerland.
  #605  
Old 31.01.2011, 16:13
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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If suicide is a major problem in Switzerland, then the Swiss should be addressing the mental health issues that exist in the country, rather than the means by which people take their lives. Statistically it is quite possible that if firearms are more strictly controlled, the suicide rate by shooting might go down. But at what cost? Should suicide by bicycle become popular, that is people cycling their bikes into trams, oncoming traffic etc, should we place stricter controls on bike purchases. I am not trying to be facetious but if we follow some of the logic as displayed in this thread, then that is where we are heading. I would rather see that the friends and family of those who suspect that a loved one is contemplating suicide, have the gunption to get that person help, or sectioned.

As I pointed out earleir, you cannot legislate for people who are chemically imbalanced or depressed. Well you can, but they wont pay any attention.

As the EU retreats into a nannystate, with leftard Eco Greens devising new ways to emasculate us, I hope the Swiss will MTFU and refute this ever worrying trend.
I don't think they're really concerned about the suicide who takes his own life, but rather those that take the lives of their families before their own. Very hard to achieve with a bicycle.
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Old 31.01.2011, 16:19
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I want to vote YES, the firearms should be taken out of the equation. Normal people do not need firearms in a country like Switzerland.
I think we can let "normal people" decide by themselves if they want or need a firearm. No need for the government to step in.
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  #607  
Old 31.01.2011, 16:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I think I am going to buy a gun, just because now I STILL CAN.
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  #608  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:00
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I think I am going to buy a gun, just because now I STILL CAN.
Keep the receipt to hand, because I've voted that you'll have to get it locked up again if the referendum is accepted Feb 13.
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  #609  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Where I have lived where similar initiative began, it did not reduce the suicides by firrarms at all.
when the guns were banned, suicides still happened with guns.

Try and figure it out, if you hate guns go live somewhere else and suffer the concequences.

your country is the way it is because of guns.

keep Schweiz the way it is. free
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I hate this poster.

  #611  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:10
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

You can never get rid of the guns in the world. wake up its reality.

you are making it safer only for criminals. as crime will increase with the guns out of the homes...

It's foreign mentality, the criminals are scared of the Swiss because they have these guns at home.

be prepared to employ many more police, and a huge increase in taxes, due to your stupidity and blindness...
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:17
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I don't think they're really concerned about the suicide who takes his own life, but rather those that take the lives of their families before their own. Very hard to achieve with a bicycle.

Wow.

Clearly, I must be missing something. I wasn`t aware that familial homicide was such an issue in Switzerland. Granted you are correct about the bicycle.

But my point again is that you cannot legislate for everyhing in society. The system in Switzerland works well enough as it is. But I accept that an armed domestic militia migh look a little dated in this day and age.

By all mean legislate for the militia, but leave the average person alone.

FAO Taskalem

The comment about "Normal" people is beneath contempt. You Sir, have the issues if you find firearms reprehensible. Perhaps a change of diet to include red meat and MTFU is in order............
  #613  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:18
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As the EU retreats into a nannystate, with leftard Eco Greens devising new ways to emasculate us, I hope the Swiss will MTFU and refute this ever worrying trend.
"leftard"? Another one of these remarkably clever American put-downs, I guess ("left-retarded", "the left are stupid"?). Well, even center-right governments, e.g., UK, France, Germany, Sweden,..., support gun restrictions.

This Swiss would rather be a part of Europe than America.
  #614  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Clearly, I must be missing something. I wasn`t aware that familial homicide was such an issue in Switzerland. Granted you are correct about the bicycle.
As I understand it, it was the primary motivator behind the initiative, and why it has support from womens groups.

I doubt very much it will decrease the suicide rate, I can easily see how it will decrease the murder suicide rate, but haven't found out how many of these actually occur. Is it a taboo subject or does it rarely happen?
  #615  
Old 31.01.2011, 17:29
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Normal people do not need firearms in a country like Switzerland.
I don't think this is about what people need or not. I think it is about what people's rights are. Are those rights negativley affecting you in any way?

Most people may not enjoy hunting or target shooting, but what about those that do.

I think the debate about the military weapons has a little ground to run though.
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:29
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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"leftard"? Another one of these remarkably clever American put-downs, I guess ("left-retarded", "the left are stupid"?). Well, even center-right governments, e.g., UK, France, Germany, Sweden,..., support gun restrictions.

This Swiss would rather be a part of Europe than America.
It is indeed! Well spotted.

It all too easy and make light of the Americans on the basis of the actions of Bush et al. The European Liberal Elite are still touting that line.

Switzerland has enough gun control legislation in place. Ever stricter legislation will only serve to lull you into a false sense of security but the smug feeling of superiority that the antis will feel over the pro gun movements will fall silent, when God forbid another gun tragedy occurs. Instead of tackling the real issues as to why certain people go homicidal, you can feel safer that these people have no access to firearms anymore. Sadly this is pure bollix.
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:33
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Well, even center-right governments, e.g., UK, France, Germany, Sweden,..., support gun restrictions.

This Swiss would rather be a part of Europe than America.
Most all governments in the world support gun restrictions and some European governments (Finland for instance) have more per capita gun ownership than America or Switzerland and less restriction.

I don't like speaking out for any Swiss people but I thought that the constitution and general feelings of folks in this country was that they would rather be part of neither the EU or the U.S.A.
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As I understand it, it was the primary motivator behind the initiative, and why it has support from womens groups.

I doubt very much it will decrease the suicide rate, I can easily see how it will decrease the murder suicide rate, but haven't found out how many of these actually occur. Is it a taboo subject or does it rarely happen?
This is what I wanted to ask you, as you alluded to the possibility that it did indeed occur. I`m sure it is a very taboo subject, but I`m equally sure that if it was such an issue in Switzerland, we would be hearing about it. I for one am not aware of any cases.........perhaps it is not reported?
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As I understand it, it was the primary motivator behind the initiative, and why it has support from womens groups.
Which women's groups?

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...l?cid=29357688

Tom
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Old 31.01.2011, 17:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Switzerland has enough gun control legislation in place. Ever stricter legislation will only serve to lull you into a false sense of security but the smug feeling of superiority that the antis will feel over the pro gun movements will fall silent, when God forbid another gun tragedy occurs. Instead of tackling the real issues as to why certain people go homicidal, you can feel safer that these people have no access to firearms anymore. Sadly this is pure bollix.
What sense of security? Guns and ammunition already need to be kept seperate, most swiss just put their army gun in the basement. No one carries them around for protection and I don't think I've heard of a single incident here of a civilian defending their home or themselves against armed criminals with a firearm. Isn't that an illusion of security? Guns currently don't seem to offer any protection whatsoever to your average joe.
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