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Old 03.02.2011, 12:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Wow, I hope not! Just wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

As said before, we have a strong tradition here in my mountains of shooting clubs. Don't 'get' it - and my dog would be much happier not shaking in terror every Thursday evening and Sat morning. But the arsenal is 35km away - so all guns would have to be stored there, and locals would have to go and fetch said guns for practice and take them back same day - so 140km a week. Plus it seems they would'nt be able to pick up somebody else's gun, and would perhaps be targets for criminals who would soon know their routine. So I'll abstain on this vote. Intuitively I'd like to vote 'yes' - but the whole thing is badly put together.
Are you sure you understood this properly? Only military weapons are to be stored at the arsenal, and even in your shooting club mountainous region I doubt there are different regulations on army mandatory shooting practice which one is supposed to do only once a year.
  #682  
Old 03.02.2011, 13:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Are you sure you understood this properly? Only military weapons are to be stored at the arsenal, and even in your shooting club mountainous region I doubt there are different regulations on army mandatory shooting practice which one is supposed to do only once a year.
But then the great majority of target shooters in clubs use only their military weapons..
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  #683  
Old 03.02.2011, 13:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I based the fact that Mexico has restrictive gun laws on the website you gave me.
Only if you call this restrictive:
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Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons

In Mexico, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted
Regulation of Handguns

In Mexico, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted
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  #684  
Old 03.02.2011, 14:12
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But then the great majority of target shooters in clubs use only their military weapons..
Exactly. We are sponsoring a particular type of sports club's activities by providing the equipment at the cost of the taxpayers. The "no" vote explained. How inconvenient that although the equipment will still be provided for free, they'll actually have to go and pick them up from the arsenal beforehand?

I play golf; I was wondering if i could get the golf clubs paid for by the military. I would even be prepared to store them outside the family home, eg at the clubhouse/arsenal. Why are only guns supported as being weapons? After all, as I heard several say, guns don't kill, people do. Either military guns are considered to be military weapons and should be locked up, or they are sports equipment, harmless in the hands of responsible owners, and paid for by those golfers/shooters themselves. You can't have it both ways.

Vote yes and accept the military is not a sport.
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  #685  
Old 03.02.2011, 14:18
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Only if you call this restrictive:
Look, as I said before, there are many more factors involved in this complex equation.

And yes, "The regulation of guns in Mexico is categorised as restrictive" according to your website. Just because semi-automatic weapons are permitted does not mean they aren't restrictive. You need to look at other elements, such as gun registration, tracing methods, and dealership licensing.

Again, I remind you to look into the highest murder rated countries and their gun laws, if you insist on only looking at two numbers and drawing a conclusion such as this.
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Old 03.02.2011, 14:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Again, I remind you to look into the highest murder rated countries and their gun laws
South Africa, the usual sort of gun laws, no automatics, all gun registered, etc., although carrying is easier there, although nobody pays any attention to them.
Murder rate in Johannesburg, just slightly higher than Rio, Bagdad, Chechnia, Khabul or anywhere else in the world that you care to mention.

Laws mean nothing, it is only the populaces willingness to go along with those laws that makes any difference.
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  #687  
Old 03.02.2011, 14:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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But then the great majority of target shooters in clubs use only their military weapons..
How many people is this "majority" of shooters vs the numbers of conscripts that can't be bothered to to think when is the last time they used their weapon...
  #688  
Old 03.02.2011, 15:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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South Africa, the usual sort of gun laws, no automatics, all gun registered, etc., although carrying is easier there, although nobody pays any attention to them.
Murder rate in Johannesburg, just slightly higher than Rio, Bagdad, Chechnia, Khabul or anywhere else in the world that you care to mention.

Laws mean nothing, it is only the populaces willingness to go along with those laws that makes any difference.
Although you may be correct, in the most controlling governments, the ones where guns laws are most strict perhaps, the peoples' willingness to cooperate with laws is not very relevant.
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:10
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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How many people is this "majority" of shooters vs the numbers of conscripts that can't be bothered to to think when is the last time they used their weapon...
Isn't it a good thing that these conscripts can't remember when they last used their weapons?
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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in the most controlling governments, the ones where guns laws are most strict perhaps, the peoples' willingness to cooperate with laws is not very relevant.
Can you provide an example of that?
The example that I could think of that would be the opposite would be somewhere like Saudi Arabia. There the gun laws are very clear and easy to understand. Nobody other then the police of the king's army are allowed to bear weapons. Very strict control. However every man and his dog has two fully automatic assult rifles that they go off and shoot in the desert. Strict laws, nobody cares, everybody has guns, quite low crime rates. Go figure.
The point that I am trying to make here is quite simple. Laws and control mean very little unless the populace agree with those laws and go along with them. A population that does not agree will either capitulate if they don't feel strongly enough about it, or rise up if they do.
Education is more effective than prohibition, always!
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:23
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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No, no... every day someone gets killed or injured in the USA because some people are criminals.

Meanwhile, I should imagine that every day several million people in the USA don't get killed or injured because those criminals know they've got guns under their beds.
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:28
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Can you provide an example of that?
The example that I could think of that would be the opposite would be somewhere like Saudi Arabia. There the gun laws are very clear and easy to understand. Nobody other then the police of the king's army are allowed to bear weapons. Very strict control. However every man and his dog has two fully automatic assult rifles that they go off and shoot in the desert. Strict laws, nobody cares, everybody has guns, quite low crime rates. Go figure.
The point that I am trying to make here is quite simple. Laws and control mean very little unless the populace agree with those laws and go along with them. A population that does not agree will either capitulate if they don't feel strongly enough about it, or rise up if they do.
Education is more effective than prohibition, always!
I suppose an example could be China, go figure.

But I hope you understand that I am not disagreeing with your point.
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:28
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Where? Are there Swiss people on the forum?
I'm from Stockholm - so, yes
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Isn't it a good thing that these conscripts can't remember when they last used their weapons?
It is if you live in Utopia land and your main assumption is that Switzerland is safe because everyone has a military weapon at hand. It isn't if you live in the real world.
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:43
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I'm from Stockholm - so, yes
Funniest thing I've heard all day :-)
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:45
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Self-defense. Otherwise it is murder.
This was pretty funny too .. well done
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Old 03.02.2011, 15:49
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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But I hope you understand that I am not disagreeing with your point.
Ah, this dicsussion thing is a wonderful thing.
Yes, China would be an interesting counterpoint to Saudi Arabia. Lack of political education vs. lack of religious education.
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Old 03.02.2011, 16:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

At the end of the day someone will need to pay for this storage...

At least crims will have a field day when they break in one arsenal...

military type weapons are use as sports shooting, more ammo is shot at targets then at people any day...

The crime rate is Swiss is low very low... but wait till you touch these laws...
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Old 03.02.2011, 16:21
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Are you truly from Australia? Because I heard about ya'll's disarmament and some results of it. It is my understanding that gun-related crime has risen. What do you make of it?
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Old 03.02.2011, 16:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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At the end of the day someone will need to pay for this storage...
Why - you think an empty arsenal costs less to build and maintain than a full one?
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