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  #701  
Old 03.02.2011, 17:43
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Why - you think an empty arsenal costs less to build and maintain than a full one?
Couldn't you just not have one? I don't know anything about these arsenals, by the way.
  #702  
Old 03.02.2011, 17:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Couldn't you just not have one?
We could, but stocking high-grade explosives on street corners is frowned upon by the current littering legislation.

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I don't know anything about these arsenals, by the way.
Quite obviously.
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  #703  
Old 03.02.2011, 18:45
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We could keep the grenades at home too ... Save storage costs, support the reaponsible grenade owners in their hobby. Like guns, im guessing grenades don't kill, people do....
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  #704  
Old 03.02.2011, 18:53
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Like guns, im guessing grenades don't kill, people do....
Well, they do tend to be pretty inert until a person pulls out the pin...
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  #705  
Old 03.02.2011, 19:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Hi schweizerblut, I was in Australia when they banned all semi-auto's, and a lot of pistols. they have now made licencing a nightmare with too many hoops to jump through... it's easier to buy a weapon on the black market and at least get what you want...
Crime has gone up way too high, and in most cases you as a criminal are now protected. I know of a case where a buglar injured himself entering a house, seud the owner who then had to pay for the time he couldn't work???

If all the weapons in Swiss now go to an arsenal, who will guard this, and who will be behind the camera's who will be there when the weapons are being picked up.. someone has to pay.. also as crime will rise who will pay for this?
with training and weapons at home, crime stays low...
if you believe otherwise, go and live where it is different..
I have seen this not only in Australia but several other countries too...
it starts with these inocent steps, then the next then the next till those who we know have the weapons are disarmed and only crims have weapons... good luck with the yes vote.
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Old 03.02.2011, 19:17
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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you as a criminal are now protected.
Hey, Schweizerblut! He just called you a criminal!

Are you going to stand for that?
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  #707  
Old 03.02.2011, 19:50
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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How many people is this "majority" of shooters vs the numbers of conscripts that can't be bothered to to think when is the last time they used their weapon...
Nice try.. I said target shooters in clubs. And you are quite capable to find that number on your own..

As to the whole "oh vey, the crims will take over and don't have to register their guns".. I guess the most convincing argument is that criminals get the guns from households that do not secure them properly... round and round we go...

But then, I guess arguments are not needed when we have omnipresent fear as main motivation for the no vote...
  #708  
Old 03.02.2011, 20:13
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Wouldn't be useful, for those of us able to vote, to get unbiased information to be able to make an informed decision- instead of listening to all those with vested interests?
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Old 03.02.2011, 20:18
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Wouldn't be useful, for those of us able to vote, to get unbiased information to be able to make an informed decision- instead of listening to all those with vested interests?
It might but then what sort of way is that to run a political system.
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  #710  
Old 03.02.2011, 20:24
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Aussieman,

Are you dinky di?

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  #711  
Old 03.02.2011, 20:26
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Aussieman,

Are you dinky di?

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  #712  
Old 03.02.2011, 20:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Wouldn't be useful, for those of us able to vote, to get unbiased information to be able to make an informed decision- instead of listening to all those with vested interests?
You mean we should take the politicans away from politics? I like that idea...!

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  #713  
Old 03.02.2011, 20:40
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Watching the BBC news, gawd I'm pleased the EDL do not have guns under their beds.
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Old 03.02.2011, 20:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Are you truly from Australia? Because I heard about ya'll's disarmament and some results of it. It is my understanding that gun-related crime has risen. What do you make of it?
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Hi schweizerblut, I was in Australia when they banned all semi-auto's, and a lot of pistols. they have now made licencing a nightmare with too many hoops to jump through... it's easier to buy a weapon on the black market and at least get what you want...
Crime has gone up way too high, and in most cases you as a criminal are now protected. I know of a case where a buglar injured himself entering a house, seud the owner who then had to pay for the time he couldn't work???
They did not ban all semi-autos, or even that many pistols that were legal at the time the laws changed. Also, even some 'banned' firearms can be legally obtained if you can prove you need them. Some people do.

Now, just three results from the first page of a quick Google search on "Australia gun-related crime".

Let's see what a neutral, balanced analysis of statistics can yield: http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Not sure exactly who the authors of this study are, but they provide links to their sources: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/gunaus.htm

Statistics Canada have something to say as well: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../10518-eng.htm
This comparison graph is interesting:

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Old 03.02.2011, 20:52
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Nice try.. I said target shooters in clubs. And you are quite capable to find that number on your own..

As to the whole "oh vey, the crims will take over and don't have to register their guns".. I guess the most convincing argument is that criminals get the guns from households that do not secure them properly... round and round we go...

But then, I guess arguments are not needed when we have omnipresent fear as main motivation for the no vote...
It was a non-intended slip by all means as you and i have the same POV. My point is the club shooters who use their mil issue weapon for leisure shooting are by far outnumbered by the number of conscripts that'd rather be rid of the weapon from home, so Odile's argument about the poor shooters that have to go to the arsenal to get their toy every weekend doesnt hold water.
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Old 03.02.2011, 21:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Tru Blu

Howard took back 620 000 weapons

over 6 million have disapeared, it has been proven that out of the 100 or so different models, 2 of the types had figures of close to and well over 1 million of each imported into Australia...

It is not that there should be a need, I shoot with a semi-auto because I love to shoot with one...

I am too lazy to reload for each shot, and auto wastes too much ammo...
  #717  
Old 03.02.2011, 21:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Don't bother then, perhaps?
  #718  
Old 04.02.2011, 00:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Meh Swiss... Agree it would be terrible if all those reasonable and responsible gun owners would practically be forced to bypass the system and buy their weapons illegaly.

Does someone know what the requirements for shooting club members are? Do they have to go practicing once a week/at the odd event during a year?
My brother was member of the shooting club of Pfäffikon/ZH (am Pfäffikersee) and went shooting between 2 and 6 times per year, but went participating in their pub between 10 and 50 times per year He later on moved to Wädenswil, then back to Zürich and finally to Zug.

No, you are expected to turn up at times to do a bit of shooting, and most of all you are expected to particpated in the social activities
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Old 04.02.2011, 00:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I based the fact that Mexico has restrictive gun laws on the website you gave me. I was not speaking with relation to the U.S.

Whether or not more guns among the private sector would decrease or increase gun related crimes in Mexico is a complex correlation. I believe that it is not prudent to look at merely a country's guns per capita and their murder rates and then make a correlation.

But if you would like to play that game, you can look at the top three countries with the highest murder rates and then notice that they have very restrictive gun laws and few guns per capita.

Also you will notice that Switzerland has among the lowest murder within Europe and yet has more guns than anyone else. So maybe more guns in Mexico would help their crime rates.

In my opinion, there are many factors that are difficult to incorporate into this equation.
No Sir, Switzerland does not have "more guns than anyone else". The statistics in question are all subject to the old-paper-collections, because they count the military-weapons which are without ammunition and by 99,999% inactive during the year. It would be nice if you started to accept realities, instead of chattering irrelevant statistical rubbish
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Old 04.02.2011, 20:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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if you can prove you need them.
The problem is that you have to prove your need for a firearm to a government who just destroyed thousands of your guns. Also, it is my understanding that 'protection' is not a valid reason in Australia.
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