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Old 05.02.2011, 22:04
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Noooooooo ! The other way around.
Benjamin Franklin was deeply inspired by Switzerland during his travels here.
According to what model did the US decide to have states managed by a federal government ? makes you think of.. and which country has the oldest democracy ?
The US model may perhaps have had an influence later in history, but the initial inspiration came from this small and tidy country.
Do catch up on your history
Rubbish, the swiss constitution didn't come into existence until 1846. Look up your history please madam.
  #762  
Old 05.02.2011, 22:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Oh hello Cariad.. I've been expecting you
I meant the old Swiss Confederacy.. an inspiration for many other nations.
Back to the books
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Old 05.02.2011, 22:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Rubbish, the swiss constitution didn't come into existence until 1846. Look up your history please madam.
no no, what is meant is that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin had their inspirations from the existing federal structures of 1291-1847 Switzerland and the ideas of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The two gentlemen however were the men who put the ideas in question into useful legal paragraphs and into the framework of a real constitution. THIS is the reason why historians, in spite of the different size of the two countries, tend to speak about the SISTER-REPUBLICS ! Amazing is that Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru when structuring the Union of India (now Republic of India) used the constitutions of the USA and of Switzerland, and mixed them, so that even larger India now in a way is the third "sister-republic"
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Old 05.02.2011, 22:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Looking back at past votes Swiss people do not like to change tradition, and guns in Switzerland is tradition. Although there is an impetus for a Yes I will not be surprised if a No turns out at the end. Anyhow Switzerland! clearly reflects Democracy at its beauty and the Majority will prevail on Feb 13.
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Old 05.02.2011, 22:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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which country has the oldest democracy ?
...
Do catch up on your history
Iceland, as it happens.

Sorry to interrupt - now, I believe you were saying something about catching up on history...
  #766  
Old 05.02.2011, 22:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Looking back at past votes Swiss people do not like to change tradition, and guns in Switzerland is tradition. Although there is an impetus for a Yes I will not be surprised if a No turns out at the end. Anyhow Switzerland! clearly reflects Democracy at its beauty and the Majority will prevail on Feb 13.
My forecast is a NO, but I would prefer to have a narrow YES. A heavy YES however would be something I would detest as much as a heavy NO.
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  #767  
Old 05.02.2011, 22:57
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Iceland, as it happens.

Sorry to interrupt - now, I believe you were saying something about catching up on history...
Distorting the original sentence is naughty !! The comparison was between the US and CH
but.. if you wish to get specific.. the oldest democracy would be Athens


Thank you Wolli !!!!! spot on
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Old 05.02.2011, 23:05
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Lisa, lives in a dreamworld...

Aussie's especially woman down under live in a dreamworld... they try and create a world without gun's...
the gun's are here and they will not go away, best is to find a way with them.
Banning like Aust drives them underground. if you feel safe at home in Aust. stay there. there are at least 6 million illegal firearms going around.

there are hardly and wrongdoings with firearm in Switzerland.
more people die in car accidents, stabbings, with drugs, hanging...
sorry I mentioned those before, but these are not discused because this is acceptable...
guns don't kill people, people kill people.

We want to have guns because we enjoy to shoot them.

we don't live in a dreamworld
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  #769  
Old 05.02.2011, 23:10
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Lisa, lives in a dreamworld...
...
blah,blah, blah
...
we don't live in a dreamworld
I have to say, I admire your stamina


So tell us about the time you pointed a loaded gun at someone...
  • Did you squeeze that trigger?

  • Did you hit?

  • Was it a kill?

  • What were the legal consequences for you?


Jus' curious...
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Old 05.02.2011, 23:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Iceland, as it happens.

Sorry to interrupt - now, I believe you were saying something about catching up on history...
I thought it was Iran based Cyrus and the Cylinder (now on loan to British Museum from Iran) - the universally acknowledged first charter of Human rights.
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Old 05.02.2011, 23:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I thought it was Iran based Cyrus and the Cylinder (now on loan to British Museum from Iran) - the universally acknowledged first charter of Human rights.
Good answer, Hoppy - unfortunately it's a good answer to another question entirely
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Old 06.02.2011, 00:32
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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My forecast is a NO, but I would prefer to have a narrow YES. A heavy YES however would be something I would detest as much as a heavy NO.
I don't think that could possibly have been stated so as to sound more Swiss.
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  #773  
Old 06.02.2011, 00:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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there are at least 6 million illegal firearms going around.
Oh dear - I think the Australian Governement is calling you a liar:

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How many illegal firearms are there?

As to the number of illegal firearms, in International traffic in small arms: an Australian perspective and the media release Illegal trafficking of small arms, the AIC points out that ‘there is no way of assessing the number of illegal weapons’. Recently, a gun control researcher from Sydney University’s School of Public Health, Philip Alpers, estimated that there are about 20 000 illegal handguns in Australia. Similar reports are available on the gunpolicy.org website hosted by the University of Sydney’s School of Public Health.
There is information available on the number of stolen firearms, including handguns. In Firearms theft in Australia 2004–05 the AIC found that less than 0.1 per cent of registered firearms (almost 1500 firearms) were reported stolen to police. In 2004–05, rifles accounted for the majority (58 per cent) of all stolen firearms, with bolt action rifles the most often listed. One-quarter of stolen firearms were shotguns, and nearly 40 per cent of these were single-barrelled. Handguns constituted seven per cent of firearms reported stolen, with around 40 per cent of these being semi-automatic handguns. This report also includes data on incidents by jurisdiction and by geography. For more AIC reports see their firearms publications list and the weapons page.
Full article, Firearms in Australia: a guide to electronic resources.
http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/b...-08/08bn01.htm
  #774  
Old 06.02.2011, 08:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Australia, banned semi auto's because of the port Arthur incident.

From my Aussie government contact this was set up.
there was a huge coverup there, I also remember the first news footage that has since disapeared, where police snipers were on the spot and were told not to shoot, while another 20 people died.
this was not the guns, it were people killing people, these guns were allready illegal, the main weapon used had been handed in to Melbourne police and officially destroyed, so how did it end up in Tassie?

SKS over 1 million imported into Australia, Ruger 10/22 about 1 million imported. the actual list is over 100 models long.
I can add too, this adds up to 620000 all the semi-auto's in Australia.
one more thing, a collector in Qld. wanted to hand in his gattling guns, wasn't accepted as they were not on the ban list because they shoot one barrel at a time....

I know of a priest here, who is stressing because of this he has a lance from when he was a Swiss guard in Rome, this was a present, he will have to hand this in too as it is a military weapon???

Easiest way to kill someone is not with a gun, it is with a car. This is accepted murder...

This initiative will take years to work through the system, and cost a fortune that the Swiss will need to pay for.
Will it make Switzerland safer? no, it will not be any safer with these guns gone. Easiest way to fix the problem, is to introduce and enforce a steel locked cabinet or safe for guns only in the home like most of the EU for instance. Ammo if any at home to be kept in a safe or similar. so the 2 don't get together and start a party.
In Australia a semi-auto was always called a self loading rifle this is where the problems started you see these load themselves... lol

How like Lisa would like to see all guns gone, how will you ever do this???
Russia shipped Rifles like Australia ships coal... by the trainload to places like Africa... Lisa is a dreamer, we like our guns.
Lets take away all the things that interest Lisa and see what she will do, fight like a cat?

Be real, the guns are not really the problem are they, it is education.
this dirty word education...

Why do we have problems it's because people are too lazy to educate, if a kid falls of a bicycle he should get back on it, not sit there feeling sorry for himself / herself. wake up...

This initiative is the start of bigger things to come...

keeps people busy so please vote yes, to screw Switzerland up.

and vote no to keep it safe as it has been
  #775  
Old 06.02.2011, 08:26
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I see your report, this does not include the hand-in nor the figures of imported weapons oppossed to weapons handed in....

dig deeper, my source is from within the government.

I also know the figures from when the hand-in was going, as I had to hand in way to many.

many figures have changed in the course of time from Australia,
if you want to prove me wrong go ahead. no skin of my nose I know the real figures. your only fooling yourselves.
  #776  
Old 06.02.2011, 08:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I see you were looking at stolen weapons, I am talking of the ban see these sites:

http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/1997...n-buyback.html

Real figures on crime increase:

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Also a note: have a good look at how the unworkable complexity of the Australian gun licence has become. unlike some EU licencing where a gun is something you put munitions into pull a trigger and bang a piece of lead flew out... as the model on the licence tells you what the gun is. simplifing the system one licence for all guns.
  #777  
Old 06.02.2011, 09:00
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Australian Gun Law Update

Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts...

From: , A police officer in Australia

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were
forced

By a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be
destroyed by Our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,

Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now
up
300 percent.

(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
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  #778  
Old 06.02.2011, 11:28
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Personnally, it makes me feel very unconfortable to think that my daughter might be invited to play at a house's friend where the parents keep an arm lying around.
Those parents still have plenty of knives, hammers and many house utensils that can be used either for torture or for a direct kill.
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  #779  
Old 06.02.2011, 11:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

A firearm is a piece of steel, like a knife.

The best thing to do is educate your children, banning weapons makes the situation worse. now we have uneducated morons, who when they find a firearm will do harm to themselves and possibly others.

Its like banning cars, which are the worst offenders if it comes to murder. ban them and see what happens when someone who cannot drive finds one...

the Psychology of it all is what needs to be addressed together with education, not a band aid solution which give people nice warm fuzzy feelings....

See those like Australia where it started slowly like this innitiative and where they are at now... stupid laws, and an illegal trade beyond comprehention
  #780  
Old 06.02.2011, 12:02
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

We don't live in a dreamworld as you said- which is why it is best to keep guns locked up and not lying at the back of a cupboard at home. Although illegal, discussions with neighbours clearly indicate that most do keep some ammo at home. My neighbour is a great chap, I trust him entirely, and he keeps his guns locked up in a purpose made safe. Not all do - talking to people here again, some are kept in the bedroom wardrobe, some in the cellar or attic, or the ski locker- with the key available in the kitchen.
Mind you, the only death by gun I've known of personally was in the UK. The father was a well-known poacher and badger baiter, and he kept his gun under the bed. Kids were playing, and the daughter shot a friend by accident. They were both at my school and neighbours, both 14.
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