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Old 06.02.2011, 12:33
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Again it comes down to education, removing the weapons is not the solution as this will open the door to people keeping more illegal weapons.

What needs to be addresses is stupid behaviour like keeping a gun in the cuboard or under the bed.. lock them up properly and educate.
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  #782  
Old 06.02.2011, 12:44
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Sorry, aussieman, I somehow missed your answer there - please post it again for all our benefit...

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So tell us about the time you pointed a loaded gun at someone...
  • Did you squeeze that trigger?
  • Did you hit?
  • Was it a kill?
  • What were the legal consequences for you?
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  #783  
Old 06.02.2011, 12:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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A firearm is a piece of steel, like a knife.
Reading your posts one might be tempted to believe that the fate of a society depends on said "pieces of steel" - it'll crumble when those pieces of steel are no longer generally available to the public.
You are not talking about some archaic hunter-gatherer tribe, are you ?
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  #784  
Old 06.02.2011, 12:56
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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removing the weapons is not the solution as this will open the door to people keeping more illegal weapons.
I thought restrictive gun laws are the first step towards allowing fascist governments/the black UN helicopters/the illuminati to control people ? Boy, those guys'll surely be surprised when all of a sudden those well-hidden private guns will be put to proper use....
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  #785  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:03
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Maybe its a good idea for you to go to a save place several thousend miles back to Austrelia just saying
Oh dear. Now your making it personal about me! The lame old "if you don't like our rules, go home". It's not me who started this initiative, Swiss started it for the protection of their citizens. I'm reiterating the views of the initiants. it's not personal. I'm safe in a weapon free home.*

It is about the general population,and it is about the original reason for the initiative. Swiss women who feel threatened in their homes can't always just move to Australia, now, can they. But they van vote for change. 11% of women seeking refuge in women's centres were threatened by military issue weapons. With or without ammunition, that is outrageous. Unnecessary.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

Lisa
* except for golf clubs
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  #786  
Old 06.02.2011, 13:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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At the other hand, Switzerland also in case of a YES to the initiative still will be fairly up in regard to arms at home due to the many shooting clubs in this country.
Sorry, but that's pure speculation. No one knows yet whether it will be sufficient to be simply a member of a shooting club. Quite likely their will be further requirements.

Governments have a long history of bait and switch. Until the current federal gun law was introduced in the late Nineties, you didn't even need a permit to carry a gun in some cantons. Back then it was promised that people will be able to apply for gun carrying permits if needed. However once the law went into effect it turned out that it was nearly impossible to obtain a carry permit unless someone needed the gun for work. Even applications by people who could prove that they have been threatened repeatedly and wanted a gun for personal protection were turned down.

Or today's Federal Tax (direkte Bundessteuer) was originally introduced as a temporary war tax during WW I. Go figure...!

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Possibly, not even the statistics will change in case of a YES.
Congrats, Wolli! Finally you're admitting that the Initiative is utterly useless!

So why vote Yes? Just because you hate the "Obligatorische"?

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Why ? Very simple, because the soldiers legally will remain to be the holders of the guns, as the guns will be registered to each soldiers, and a shooting accounting will be done as before.
Speculation again. I strongly doubt that the current concept of the personal weapon will survive once the guns must be stored centrally.

Last edited by Mark75; 06.02.2011 at 13:49.
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  #787  
Old 06.02.2011, 14:03
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Again it comes down to education, removing the weapons is not the solution as this will open the door to people keeping more illegal weapons.

What needs to be addresses is stupid behaviour like keeping a gun in the cuboard or under the bed.. lock them up properly and educate.
Aussieman

You are passionate about something that is not even remotely applicable to this vote.

Here in Switzerland the guns are in the cupboard and under the bed. We don't want to get rid of guns at all ... we want them safely locked up. There is a big difference.

Lisa
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  #788  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Again it comes down to education, removing the weapons is not the solution as this will open the door to people keeping more illegal weapons.

What needs to be addresses is stupid behaviour like keeping a gun in the cuboard or under the bed.. lock them up properly and educate.
Oh, teach them how to properly keep it under their beds .
  #789  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Lisa, lives in a dreamworld...
We want to have guns because we enjoy to shoot them.
In the U.S. the Second Amendment is not so we rednecks can go shoot us some deer. The purpose is so that we may defend ourselves against tyranny.
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  #790  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Oh, teach them how to properly keep it under their beds .
Loaded, ready and waiting for that burglar, of course


Mind you, not very many of them get past the autonomous quad-20mm cannon units patrolling constantly and the roof-mounted flamethrowers
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  #791  
Old 06.02.2011, 16:44
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Oh dear. Now your making it personal about me! The lame old "if you don't like our rules, go home". It's not me who started this initiative, Swiss started it for the protection of their citizens. I'm reiterating the views of the initiants. it's not personal. I'm safe in a weapon free home.*

It is about the general population,and it is about the original reason for the initiative. Swiss women who feel threatened in their homes can't always just move to Australia, now, can they. But they van vote for change. 11% of women seeking refuge in women's centres were threatened by military issue weapons. With or without ammunition, that is outrageous. Unnecessary.

C'mon, you can do better than that.

Lisa
* except for golf clubs
Yes I can ! You are the one which complained at the ones butting the nose in the swiss affair,wile living several thousand miles away
Never go to Cremana Italy this is what a guy has stored in a old fridge legaley plus a STG57 (not shown)

Last edited by cannut; 07.02.2011 at 14:15.
  #792  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:50
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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In the U.S. the Second Amendment is not so we rednecks can go shoot us some deer. The purpose is so that we may defend ourselves against tyranny.
In the US this purpose might have been well justified in past centuries. These days it is a poor excuse for any lunatic who puts politicians in the crosshairs.

If you were really concerned about this happening in the US: Why don't you pursue your political career in your country, trying to make it a more stable, democratic country, where there is no chance for tyrants to gain power ? Or pursue your avatar message and try to convince Texas to leave the union ?
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Old 06.02.2011, 17:53
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

As it has already been said.. it's quite possible that the ban won't pass, nevertheless I very much hope it does.
I'm guessing that it is the women who will carry the vote if it does get through.
I believe that most of us will be downright pleased to have all that junk locked up the way it should be.
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  #794  
Old 06.02.2011, 17:53
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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If you were really concerned about this happening in the US: Why don't you pursue your political career in your country, trying to make it a more stable, democratic country, where there is no chance for tyrants to gain power ? Or pursue your avatar message and try to convince Texas to leave the union ?
I don't think there's much of a market for pan-Germanist politics in the United States these days...
  #795  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:17
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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In the US this purpose might have been well justified in past centuries. These days it is a poor excuse for any lunatic who puts politicians in the crosshairs.

If you were really concerned about this happening in the US: Why don't you pursue your political career in your country, trying to make it a more stable, democratic country, where there is no chance for tyrants to gain power ? Or pursue your avatar message and try to convince Texas to leave the union ?
This purpose is justified now more than ever.
  #796  
Old 06.02.2011, 18:30
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Here in Switzerland the guns are in the cupboard and under the bed. We don't want to get rid of guns at all ... we want them safely locked up. There is a big difference.
Well if it was just about safe storage, I wouldn't mind. But it isn't. The initiative would make it impossible to legally own or buy a gun for everyone except gun collectors, licensed shooters and hunters.

Got that historic gun, bought by your great-great-grandfather and passed on from one generation to the next? Well, tough luck, you won't be able to prove the "need" for that gun. You will be forced to sell it to the government for destruction.

Living somewhere out in the boonies in a single-family house and want a gun for your own protection? Well, tough luck again, because the initiative says you don't "need" a gun. Doesn't matter if it takes the police at least half an hour to get to your place...

This initiative is not about gun storage. It's about taking away people's rights.
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Old 06.02.2011, 18:31
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Reading your posts one might be tempted to believe that the fate of a society depends on said "pieces of steel" - it'll crumble when those pieces of steel are no longer generally available to the public.
You are not talking about some archaic hunter-gatherer tribe, are you ?
To be fair, society will crumble without those pieces of steel and their bigger brothers. We aren't that far along, yet.
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  #798  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:06
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Well if it was just about safe storage, I wouldn't mind. But it isn't. The initiative would make it impossible to legally own or buy a gun for everyone except gun collectors, licensed shooters and hunters.

Got that historic gun, bought by your great-great-grandfather and passed on from one generation to the next? Well, tough luck, you won't be able to prove the "need" for that gun. You will be forced to sell it to the government for destruction.

Living somewhere out in the boonies in a single-family house and want a gun for your own protection? Well, tough luck again, because the initiative says you don't "need" a gun. Doesn't matter if it takes the police at least half an hour to get to your place...

This initiative is not about gun storage. It's about taking away people's rights.
Gun control has never been about the people's safety.
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  #799  
Old 06.02.2011, 19:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

This innitiative is the second innitiative...

Just wait this is just the beginning...

Just wait and see, you have been warned...
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Old 06.02.2011, 19:36
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Just wait and see, you have been warned...

So what happens after this goes through? Re-education camps in Olten? Dissidents rounded up at dawn and forced to listen to schlager music?

Tell us all about the future you predict for Switzlerland.
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