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  #1101  
Old 10.02.2011, 16:59
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

The question whether they shoot themselves or others with their service weapons is neither here nor there. The question is, do they need to have their fire arms at home. And the clear answer is no, they don't. I can't think of a single threat to Switzerland that requires the male population to be armed 24 hours a day even if the gun is hiding under their bed. When they are done playing soldier they can leave their toys at the Zeughaus.
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Old 10.02.2011, 17:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It's hardly the lizard people now is it?

I mean really, what a suprise, it's not exactly an unpopular idea. People don't need to be brainwashed into wanting less bloody guns in the world.
I agree, but it's how they go about it and the elitist agenda they operate. Incidently I've met a couple of the organisers of the GCN. I was a guest spokesman on a radio show where gun ownership was debated. They tore into me from the beginning, talking over me, shouting etc. The BBC Liverpool compare did nothing to stop them, i.e. failed to control his guests. They are lizard people Cyrus and they've influenced alot of good hearted people to look upon us as pariahs. Believe me, if you think sport shooters are odd balls you should have met this lot. After the show, I attempted to strike up a simple conversation with one of the group about a local brewery (Cains) that was in danger of closing. You know what he said to me, 'If there were not people here, I'd spit in your face', and I'm a big bloke. So Cyrus this is what the shooting fraternity are up against. I'm not exagerating.
  #1103  
Old 10.02.2011, 17:48
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I'm not exagerating.
Then again, you believe in lizard people.
  #1104  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:00
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I agree, but it's how they go about it and the elitist agenda they operate. Incidently I've met a couple of the organisers of the GCN. I was a guest spokesman on a radio show where gun ownership was debated. They tore into me from the beginning, talking over me, shouting etc. The BBC Liverpool compare did nothing to stop them, i.e. failed to control his guests. They are lizard people Cyrus and they've influenced alot of good hearted people to look upon us as pariahs. Believe me, if you think sport shooters are odd balls you should have met this lot. After the show, I attempted to strike up a simple conversation with one of the group about a local brewery (Cains) that was in danger of closing. You know what he said to me, 'If there were not people here, I'd spit in your face', and I'm a big bloke. So Cyrus this is what the shooting fraternity are up against. I'm not exagerating.
And there aren't similar people on the pro gun side? This thread certainly brings them out and they don't exactly give the gun lobby a good image.

It doesn't inspire confidence when arguments for keeping guns centre around protecting gun owners from tyrannical governments, invading forces, armed hordes of criminals and hypothetical situations which simply don't exist. They fall right into the steroetype of the shooter who just snapped.

BTW, what is the elitist agenda and what does it have to do with guns?
  #1105  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:12
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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You are right, I should have referred to "gun huggers" instead of "gun nuts". Here is a fine example of that species (the guy happens to be the president of the SVP youth organization in Geneva...):
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kultur/d...story/10837419
I laughed at that advert when I saw it. The guy says he is trying to appeal to women, but I bet most women will be amused by the photo and think, "I'll vote yes so that they will take that gun away from him..."
  #1106  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:17
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."
International Correlation between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.' Professor Martin Killias, May 1993.


If you believe that the GCN are speaking for your benefit or they don't care about libel actions (plenty of funding even though they have been charged and taken to court 17 times) think again.

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The US are number one in the world for the above, Switzerland number two. Those who think Switzerland have a low rate of violence need to open their eyes and look at the statistics. There is a statistical correlation between level of murder and suicide rates, and level of death by gunfire and legality of gun-ownership. There is simply NOT the level of accidental and violent death from gunfire in countries such as the UK where gun controls are stricter. Period. Look to national crime statistics for evidence.
Absolute and utter tosh, real tosh this time .. show me where you find these real statistics. Britain has one of the strictest gun control policies in the world including China, Yet still manages to have the highest rate of gun crime in the EU plus the worst peace time mass murder ever in my opinion, i.e. Dunblane. How does that figure with your statistics?

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Unless you live in the wilds and need to shoot for your food - there is absolutely NO sensible or sane reason to own a gun. People go on about freedom - freedom to kill people? Freedom to kill yourself? Freedom to have kids die from accidental gun accidents? Freedom to in a moment of madness (the legal plea in psychology for 'diminished manslaughter') pick up a gun and shoot in a conflict?
Do you have many of these moments of madness Stephanie?



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Many people seem to attach romantic ideals to gun ownership. Parties like the SVP use posters with ridiculous images suggesting we'll all be at the mercy of gun-wielding robbers if we're not armed. Such tosh. Many people with guns here keep them in the cellar so even if the highly unlikely situation of a gun wielding robber entering ones house at night manifested, people would hardly be sleeping next to their loaded rifle poised and ready to defend.
You are right, indeed people are not sitting down watching TV and cleaning their guns or sleeping with them under their pillow. However you must agree that robbers don't know that for a fact.

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Misplaced notions of masculinity, the male defending his territory or going off hunting have also bee cited in defense of gun freedoms. Such ridiculous stereotypes seem to belong in the same place as the ones where women are barefoot, pregnant and tied to the kitchen sink. Firmly in the murky past and certainly not in a so called civilized society.
Why did you go and write that? Did you regret it the minute you pressed Submit? My two girls are shooters and they would be quite upset to read that.





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That's my take on this situation.
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Good for you. Go for it girl!
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Old 10.02.2011, 18:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Absolute and utter tosh, real tosh this time .. show me where you find these real statistics. Britain has one of the strictest gun control policies in the world including China, Yet still manages to have the highest rate of gun crime in the EU plus the worst peace time mass murder ever in my opinion, i.e. Dunblane. How does that figure with your statistics?
Uhm, you mean the murders that gave britain the strictest gun laws, commited by a licensed gun owner.
  #1108  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:21
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Then again, you believe in lizard people.
Lol, maybe I watched too much 'V'
  #1109  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:22
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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They tore into me from the beginning, talking over me, shouting etc. The BBC Liverpool compare did nothing to stop them, i.e. failed to control his guests.
So you really mean you lost the debate.
  #1110  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Uhm, you mean the murders that gave britain the strictest gun laws, commited by a licensed gun owner.
No, I meant to emphasise that such a horrible unthinkable act could be commited in a state with extremely high gun control. It happens no matter high and tight the controls are. Some say it happens more, hmm. Okay people say 'he'd have found some other way to do it? Possibly, who can say? I think if anything the whole incident should be re-investigated but it can't be as the files are locked for 100 yrs, and that begs the question why?
  #1111  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:40
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Unlike shooters, drivers do not usually kill people on purpose. Poisoning I wouldn't know - but if you assert it's such a common practice as driving a car is I am going to start an initiative against it.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 10.02.2011, 18:41
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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No, I meant to emphasise that such a horrible unthinkable act could be commited in a state with extremely high gun control. It happens no matter high and tight the controls are. Some say it happens more, hmm. Okay people say 'he'd have found some other way to do it? Possibly, who can say? I think if anything the whole incident should be re-investigated but it can't be as the files are locked for 100 yrs, and that begs the question why?
To protect the families of the victims from nasty hacks probably. These sort of cases attract the attentions of the deluded.

The fellows involved in the shootings were mostly law abiding, like most of the population, I doubt they'd like to try and find the sort of criminals who supply firearms. Granted in countries where there are plenty of guns around after recent controls have been enabled it wouldn't be so hard. That would diminish over time.
  #1113  
Old 10.02.2011, 18:43
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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And there aren't similar people on the pro gun side? This thread certainly brings them out and they don't exactly give the gun lobby a good image.

It doesn't inspire confidence when arguments for keeping guns centre around protecting gun owners from tyrannical governments, invading forces, armed hordes of criminals and hypothetical situations which simply don't exist. They fall right into the steroetype of the shooter who just snapped.

BTW, what is the elitist agenda and what does it have to do with guns?
Of course there are people here on both sides who feel strongly otherwise why would we be here? Okay, for the crack admitted . No, how do you think hockey or football players or their supporters (we have our supporters too by the way) would feel if the nation voted to severly limit their sport. They'd go blo*dy mental. I don't think for one minute they'd be as well behaved as us. Another thing, I've been reading most of the posts here and I think that the responses have been quite moderate. Nobody has sworn at each other, or threatened anyone. It's been good fun if a little serious.
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Old 10.02.2011, 19:01
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Of course there are people here on both sides who feel strongly otherwise why would we be here? Okay, for the crack admitted . No, how do you think hockey or football players or their supporters (we have our supporters too by the way) would feel if the nation voted to severly limit their sport. They'd go blo*dy mental. I don't think for one minute they'd be as well behaved as us. Another thing, I've been reading most of the posts here and I think that the responses have been quite moderate. Nobody has sworn at each other, or threatened anyone. It's been good fun if a little serious.
I don't think footballs or hockey sticks are common murder weapons. But I do see your point. I've been clay pidgeon shooting, in the UK, certainly it was fun, and I have to admit, I wouldn't mind firing off an automatic weapon, among other things, but I also see why firearms should be controlled for such a purpose.

I have no reason to assume someone walking round with a gun, or who has one at home, is a law abiding citizen, but do wonder they feel the need to carry such an intimidating weapon in a peaceful country, nor do I know exactly what would prompt said person to use it.
  #1115  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:04
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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So you really mean you lost the debate.
What debate? It was an ambush not a debate. Mind you I'd do it again but this time with a athletics starting pistol in my pocket.
  #1116  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:07
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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What debate? It was an ambush not a debate. Mind you I'd do it again but this time with a athletics starting pistol in my pocket.
Perfect example why some people should not have access to guns..
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  #1117  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:12
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when I learnt geography it was an Imperial Dominion of Britain. Has anything changed since then ?
The Queen rules. She's the boss.

Long live The Queen.

I wonder if Philip has a weapon in the cupboard to pull out every now again to keep her in line. :-)

Lisa
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Old 10.02.2011, 19:21
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Just because we love to shoot, and some nutters missuse firearms, we always have to bear the brunt of this.

when people get killed by cars, no one attacks all the car drivers???

accepted deaths... double standards more like it
The guns are not being taken off the shooters.

The Swiss people are proposing that instead of forcing the reserve army (all Swiss men) to store their weapons, semi automatic assault rifles, at home, they will be allowed to store them at the arsenal.

Shooters should already have permits for their weapons.

Lisa
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Old 10.02.2011, 19:23
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Well I think you'd have to be astonishingly irresponsible to want no controls whatsoever. I believe guns shoud be controlled and here they are, just fine. Everybody (or most) are reasonably happy with the way things are, why change it? I bet 99% of the population didn't give a damn before the inititive was suggested.
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  #1120  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:25
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

"Many people seem to attach romantic ideals to gun ownership. Parties like the SVP use posters with ridiculous images suggesting we'll all be at the mercy of gun-wielding robbers if we're not armed. Such tosh. Many people with guns here keep them in the cellar so even if the highly unlikely situation of a gun wielding robber entering ones house at night manifested, people would hardly be sleeping next to their loaded rifle poised and ready to defend." To quote Stephanie...

I don't know if I have been asleep for a little too long, but the law, as it was explained to me, it is not allowed to use your Swiss military weapon to defend anything except the country. In other words, you are not allowed to use it shoot robbers, SVP followers or any other form of gangster, nor yourself. You can arm yourself privately and do all the above, but the reason behind having your military weapon at home is just in case someone decides to suddenly attack Switzerland, the army is quite literally ready to go. The idea of keeping military guns at home is redundant and belongs to a different world. What people do with the guns after the military service is their own business (in the cases where the men are allowed to keep the guns upon completion) but a distinction has to be made between military guns in private ownership (ie after the time of obligatory service is over) and guns which are kept at home as part of the military duties.
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