Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1121  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:25
Cariad123's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cheseaux
Posts: 61
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
Cariad123 has become a little unpopularCariad123 has become a little unpopular
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Perfect example why some people should not have access to guns..
er...chill out, that was a joke. Sheesh some people.
  #1122  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:26
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
I bet 99% of the population didn't give a damn before the inititive was suggested.
Actually, no, I think you will find that over 1% of the population would have had to have gone to the trouble of starting the initiative. So clearly they did give enough of a damn to ask the rest of the population.
  #1123  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:27
Starbug's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bern
Posts: 701
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 164 Posts
Starbug has earned some respectStarbug has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...480545,00.html
  #1124  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:33
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Just a note, that article was mid 2007.
  #1125  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:35
Starbug's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bern
Posts: 701
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 164 Posts
Starbug has earned some respectStarbug has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Yes but the issues haven't changed. I don't necessarily believe the stats in it of course, because those have changed.
  #1126  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:40
Cariad123's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cheseaux
Posts: 61
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
Cariad123 has become a little unpopularCariad123 has become a little unpopular
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Actually, no, I think you will find that over 1% of the population would have had to have gone to the trouble of starting the initiative. So clearly they did give enough of a damn to ask the rest of the population.
Okay mr pinikity. 1% of 7.8 million is how many 78000? I'm not sure how many individuals you need to get the ball rolling. Let's say 1000 hard core sh*t stirrers. They talk to 100 people each and out of that they convince 30 and so on..a sort of chain reaction. Politicians know how it works.

In fact you've got me intrigued by how the whole thing came about now. Of course! my old friends the international gun control network. Step forward mrs gill marshall andrews, on your next skiing holiday you might get a medal.
  #1127  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 91
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 25 Posts
Aussieman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

The reason no country ever dared to enter Switzerland is because the guns are at home, it is treatening for anyone thinking of invading.

The law should not be changed because a few foreigners think it should be.

Switzerland is what it is, don't let the foreigners tell you, you should change because they feel unsafe.

Guns don't jump out and shoot people. I do agree that they should be locked up a bit better then they are now.

But not in one place... no way

Say NO please
This user would like to thank Aussieman for this useful post:
  #1128  
Old 10.02.2011, 19:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Switzerland is a wonderful country. It has stayed out of wars .. even with planes flying overhead and dropping bombs, accidentally, on some of its houses.

Every Swiss man is armed. Most Swiss men belong to shooting clubs. They know how to control and safeguard their weapons. It`s an age old tradition they have grown up with.

If a Swiss man fires his Swiss Army rifle at a tree in his garden he is guilty and spends time in the military prison... ( a great disgrace!)

If he fires a privately owned gun at that same tree ..... he is fined...(a MINOR disdemeaner

)

The army weapon is his holy responsibility.

Privately owned guns are the ones that need controlling...i.m.o.

Everyone loves Switzerland, and loves living here ... why?... because it is a safe country, and they earn good money, and their kids get a good education, and the money is stable, their cars don`t get stolen, they don`t get hijacked, they can walk home from the pub at night without getting mugged.

Slowly, slowly, it is being dragged into the mainstream of the world .....
Being forced to take in refugees, support the unemployable, disarm its citizens.

Oh well ... one of these days ..... it will probably be "just another country" where you can`t walk alone safely, be dealing in erratic Euros, and fighting wars in other countries, if not in this land.

I am fascinated to watch my 14year old grandson sling his rifle over his shoulder and cycle off to the local gunclub for his competition shooting - and later when he dis-assembles and cleans his weapon of mass destruction. At least he has learned how to handle a weapon safely.
The following 4 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #1129  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:03
Starbug's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bern
Posts: 701
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 164 Posts
Starbug has earned some respectStarbug has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is a wonderful country. It has stayed out of wars .. even with planes flying overhead and dropping bombs, accidentally, on some of its houses.

Every Swiss man is armed. Most Swiss men belong to shooting clubs. They know how to control and safeguard their weapons. It`s an age old tradition they have grown up with.

If a Swiss man fires his Swiss Army rifle at a tree in his garden he is guilty and spends time in the military prison... ( a great disgrace!)

If he fires a privately owned gun at that same tree ..... he is fined...(a MINOR disdemeaner

)

The army weapon is his holy responsibility.

Privately owned guns are the ones that need controlling...i.m.o.

Everyone loves Switzerland, and loves living here ... why?... because it is a safe country, and they earn good money, and their kids get a good education, and the money is stable, their cars don`t get stolen, they don`t get hijacked, they can walk home from the pub at night without getting mugged.

Slowly, slowly, it is being dragged into the mainstream of the world .....
Being forced to take in refugees, support the unemployable, disarm its citizens.

Oh well ... one of these days ..... it will probably be "just another country" where you can`t walk alone safely, be dealing in erratic Euros, and fighting wars in other countries, if not in this land.

I am fascinated to watch my 14year old grandson sling his rifle over his shoulder and cycle off to the local gunclub for his competition shooting - and later when he dis-assembles and cleans his weapon of mass destruction. At least he has learned how to handle a weapon safely.
Switzerland has stayed out of wars by being a neutral country and it happens to have some rather important banks that no one wanted to blow up.
I don't know where you live and I am glad your part of the country is still safe and idyllic but believe it or not Switzerland has been dragged into the mainstream a long time ago and as for the rest of your talk about forced to take in refugees, support the unemployable and all the rest of it, well Switzerland has been a little slow on the uptake haven't they, hiding their heads in the sand and pretending their world is rosy while everyone else got bad news for breakfast. I guess you blame unemployment on foreigners too. Who do you blame the working poor statistics on? Or are they just lazy and don't work hard enough? The days of wine, roses and chocolate for all are over in this country and have been for a while.
__________________
A valuable but incomplete strand of thought...
  #1130  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:10
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is a wonderful country. It has stayed out of wars .. even with planes flying overhead and dropping bombs, accidentally, on some of its houses.


Quote:
View Post
I am fascinated to watch my 14year old grandson sling his rifle over his shoulder and cycle off to the local gunclub for his competition shooting - and later when he dis-assembles and cleans his weapon of mass destruction. At least he has learned how to handle a weapon safely.
I did the same and honestly, I don't see yet that anybody will prohibit shooting clubs and competitions... Plus, do you really believe it is wise to hand out assault rifles to 14 year olds?
  #1131  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:13
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
I did the same and honestly, I don't see yet that anybody will prohibit shooting clubs and competitions... Plus, do you really believe it is wise to hand out assault rifles to 14 year olds?
Do they use assault rifles for club shooting events?

All of the weapons that I have seen for official events tend to be very complicated and extremely fragile purpose made devices. Then again, I don't know many people who shoot in la Suisse.
  #1132  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 389
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 758 Times in 216 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Well I think you'd have to be astonishingly irresponsible to want no controls whatsoever. I believe guns shoud be controlled and here they are, just fine. Everybody (or most) are reasonably happy with the way things are, why change it? I bet 99% of the population didn't give a damn before the inititive was suggested.

You asked for some facts - and called my memory of the facts 'tosh'. You also gave some anecdotal evidence about how guns are fine - and cited Dunblane as an example of a gun crime in a country like the UK with tight controls.

Let's take Dunblane first. Yes, it happened. There are SOME gun crimes in the UK. Here are some statistics taken from the Home Office UK and their annual National Crime Survey. Crime in England and Wales: Quarterly Update to September 2010 (available as a PDF. just google it)

Provisional figures4 for firearm offences recorded by the police show they account for 0.2 per cent of all recorded crime. There was a six per cent fall in firearm offences from 8,263 to 7,764 in the year to September 2010, compared with the previous year.

So, the statistics back up my anecdotal evidence when I say for every Dunblane you've got numerous "Arizona's" "Columbine's" "Virginia Tech's" "Kent state shootings" and that's just naming some of the more famous cases. Not mentioning the countless homicides and suicides which the US Dept of Justice mention in their statistics here:

In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicide committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns compared to 4% with rifles 5% with shotguns and the rest with a type of firearm not specified.Due to the lethal potential that a gun brings to a situation, the likelihood that a death will result is significantly increased when either the victim or the attacker has a firearm.[The mortality rate for gunshot wounds to the heart is 84%, compared to 30% for people who sustain stab wounds to the heart.

In the United States, firearms remain the most common method of suicide, accounting for 50.7% of all suicides committed during 2006

Even if you look at pro-gun websites who cite ridiculously low statistics like 10% of homicides caused by firearms - you're still looking a a heck of a lot more than in the UK at 0.2%

Call it tosh if you want - I managed a first class honours degree in Criminology (OK 20 years ago ) but I have spent several years researching this and other crime related issues.
  #1133  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland has stayed out of wars by being a neutral country and it happens to have some rather important banks that no one wanted to blow up.
I don't know where you live and I am glad your part of the country is still safe and idyllic but believe it or not Switzerland has been dragged into the mainstream a long time ago and as for the rest of your talk about forced to take in refugees, support the unemployable and all the rest of it, well Switzerland has been a little slow on the uptake haven't they, hiding their heads in the sand and pretending their world is rosy while everyone else got bad news for breakfast. I guess you blame unemployment on foreigners too. Who do you blame the working poor statistics on? Or are they just lazy and don't work hard enough? The days of wine, roses and chocolate for all are over in this country and have been for a while.
Well, of course ....Switzerland is the worlds bank .. and people don`t destroy their banks.

I live in the idyllic countryside, in a Swiss cow town, the last refuge outside of the cities that are being invaded by foreigners seeking to better themselves.

Five years ago, Switzerland was still "out of the mainstream". So sad about the EU becoming so overbearing and interfering in a country that has managed its own affairs - as opposed to what other countries do with themselves.

Why should a country, that has its citizens interests at heart, be still a country that aspiring professionals seek employment in, be accused of "hiding their heads in the sand"? .... Everyone else in the world hides their heads in the sand when it comes to arming countries whose citizens are starving to death. At least CH keeps its own doorstep clean, and sends financial and practical aid.

Yes, you are quite correct about who I blame for unemployment figures, and non-working ethics.

Actualy I am also ashamed to be referred to as a "foreigner".

As a matter of interest ..... what brought YOU to Switzerland? ... better salary?... better working conditions?....a safer family environment?.... or what..? .. first class studies...?..the climate here..?

Or a free salary, with acommodation, medical, language lessons...?

Just interested ..... seeing as you seem to support destroying the traditional way of life in this country...?
The following 2 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #1134  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 91
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 25 Posts
Aussieman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Now we are talking

I think if you live on one of the big smokes, you may encounter some problems. I am lucky I do not...

there are at least 3 shooting ranges within a short distance where I am and when they are open it's like music to my ears... lol

Please say NO and educate everyone, instead of making everyone a brainless twit that are affraid when they even see a picture of a gun...

Education, banning and major restrictions don't work...
  #1135  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:24
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Do they use assault rifles for club shooting events?

All of the weapons that I have seen for official events tend to be very complicated and extremely fragile purpose made devices. Then again, I don't know many people who shoot in la Suisse.
The fragile and complicated-looking weapons are without exception private acquisitions. And yes, in the Jungschützen (young shooters clubs/pre-army course) you will use the current standard army-issue assault rifles.

It's not that I have anything against shooting in clubs, I find it a very calm, concentrated activity..
The following 2 users would like to thank herc82 for this useful post:
  #1136  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:26
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Education, banning and major restrictions don't work...
Obviously not
  #1137  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post




I did the same and honestly, I don't see yet that anybody will prohibit shooting clubs and competitions... Plus, do you really believe it is wise to hand out assault rifles to 14 year olds?
My family .. coming from South Africa .. have handled guns all their lives.

My grandson has been taught ... here in Switzerland .... how to handle a gun. He knows the laws, and the intricasies of gun-handling. It is not a "toy". He does competition shooting, and is first class, with many medals proudly won.

Now that he has been educated about guns, he has resigned from the club, and taken up other more energetic sports.

"Assault" rifle? .. dunno .. it`s a "rifle". Just another gun, that can kill when loaded with bullets. A deadly weapon. And in my, and my families opinions .... tis better to be educated about things like that, than for the kid to one day find a gun and "play" with it.
The following 3 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #1138  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:33
colinwheeler's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gersau
Posts: 998
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 872 Times in 440 Posts
colinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond reputecolinwheeler has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Okay mr pinikity. 1% of 7.8 million is how many 78000? I'm not sure how many individuals you need to get the ball rolling. Let's say 1000 hard core sh*t stirrers.
That would be Mr. Pinikity Esq. to you.
I believe it takes 100 000 people to launch a referendum like this. That would possibly be over 2% of the population that is eligible to vote in the country.
Seriously though, it does frustrate me that you constantly use invalid arguments to support your case and then when proven wrong just continue blithely without even responding. Currently your whole case has so holes in it that it is starting to look distinctly like a colander.
  #1139  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:33
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
The fragile and complicated-looking weapons are without exception private acquisitions. And yes, in the Jungschützen (young shooters clubs/pre-army course) you will use the current standard army-issue assault rifles.

It's not that I have anything against shooting in clubs, I find it a very calm, concentrated activity..
Yes, I know. I have friends over here that have those lovely fragile and complicated weapons. (The guy was standby for the Olympic pistol team, last time. )

Don't get me wrong. I like guns. I just don't like idiots to have them and it is very difficult to tell sometimes. This is why I don't particularly tend to come down on either side of the issue.
  #1140  
Old 10.02.2011, 20:35
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
My family .. coming from South Africa .. have handled guns all their lives.
That's nice, but doesn't have anything to do with the topic?! Shooting clubs would still exist after the vote..
Closed Thread

Tags
army, guns, referendum, tradition, weapons




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Withdrawing your labour 4th Feb 2011 Ittigen Daily life 45 21.12.2010 11:52
..Moving near Rolle, Vaud in Feb 2011 swiss2011 Introductions 1 15.12.2010 10:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0