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  #1161  
Old 10.02.2011, 21:51
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

It doesn't I was just replying to your point about bank breaking neutrality :-)
  #1162  
Old 10.02.2011, 22:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Nice to be able to shoot back though eh?
Ah yes, wonderful. All sorted then. Just what we want here.
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Old 10.02.2011, 22:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Back on topic - somewhat. I just spoke to an old dear today who has already voted - but the wrong way!

She wanted the guns banned and so in her logic voted "No"...
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Old 10.02.2011, 22:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Back on topic - somewhat. I just spoke to an old dear today who has already voted - but the wrong way!
I asked I guy at work the same question the other day, he responded "probably the opposite of you!"

He was, as always, correct.

He almost always votes the wrong way!

Damned left-wing Ticinese !

(probably comes from having a mother from Uster)

Tom
  #1165  
Old 10.02.2011, 22:32
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Back on topic - somewhat. I just spoke to an old dear today who has already voted - but the wrong way!

She wanted the guns banned and so in her logic voted "No"...
Ouch! Some times the logic used in writing these referenda is less than transparent.
  #1166  
Old 10.02.2011, 22:37
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Ah yes, wonderful. All sorted then. Just what we want here.
Thanks, I always aim to please
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Old 10.02.2011, 22:40
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Well, it's over.

Sunday PM we will have the results.

Anyone want to bet on the outcome?

Tom
  #1168  
Old 10.02.2011, 23:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The honourable Mr Pinikity esq, it is only your opinion that makes my twopenneth invalid. I appreciate the fact that you actually read my posts to be frustrated. However, I'm sorry if the facts don't fit your picture of the world at present.

Do you shoot by the way?
Let's avoid "honourable" as it is a title used for judges normally and I am nothing in the legal profession.

An argument is based on a premise and facts. I showed that some of your facts were wrong, not in my opinion but in what seems very much like a general concensus. You ignored that....that frustrated me. Simple.

Yes, in South Africa I used to do target shooting and the occasional bit of hunting.
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  #1169  
Old 10.02.2011, 23:16
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Anyone want to bet on the outcome?
On the popular vote right? Otherwise it'll be no fun. We already know what will happen with the initiative itself (another repeat of the minarets and expulsion initiatives).
  #1170  
Old 10.02.2011, 23:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Okay mr pinikity. 1% of 7.8 million is how many 78000? I'm not sure how many individuals you need to get the ball rolling. Let's say 1000 hard core sh*t stirrers. They talk to 100 people each and out of that they convince 30 and so on..a sort of chain reaction. Politicians know how it works.

In fact you've got me intrigued by how the whole thing came about now. Of course! my old friends the international gun control network. Step forward mrs gill marshall andrews, on your next skiing holiday you might get a medal.
If you could be bothered to actually look into the issue properly you would find this has been a significant issue in Switzerland for quite a few years now, well debated in media and political circles.
A 47:45 lead for the no vote in the last opinion polls nicely confirm this is not a minority issue.
BTW it's 1% of voters...no minors, no foreigners. Something over 100,000.

Oh and Aussieman. Perhaps you would care to note that if this is passed it's the Swiss peoples choice. Most of our politicians are sadly against.
  #1171  
Old 10.02.2011, 23:33
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Five years ago, Switzerland was still "out of the mainstream". So sad about the EU becoming so overbearing and interfering in a country that has managed its own affairs - as opposed to what other countries do with themselves.
If we really wanted to stay out of the mainstream, I guess we shouldn't have given women the right to vote a few decades ago. Yeah, let's really be different!

Not sure how much the EU has "interfered". We voted against joining the EEA, but voted for Schengen. It has always been our choice on our relationship with the EU so I don't know what you are talking about.

Last edited by Suisse2008; 11.02.2011 at 00:20. Reason: emoticon
  #1172  
Old 10.02.2011, 23:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I feel I may have missed something here in the thread, it's sometimes confusing the way replies are rendered. I'm usually man enough to acknowledge when I'm proved incorrect. Anyway I've run out of patience with the thread now as it seems to be getting into swapping statistics which in my experience is the science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures. All the best, Cariad
  #1173  
Old 11.02.2011, 02:11
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Back on topic - somewhat. I just spoke to an old dear today who has already voted - but the wrong way!

She wanted the guns banned and so in her logic voted "No"...

...anyway, better than the other way 'round.

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Ouch! Some times the logic used in writing these referenda is less than transparent.
Well, this time it's actually plain and simple:

Quote:
Wollen Sie die Volksinitiative "Für den Schutz vor Waffengewalt" annehmen?
(Do you want to accept the initiative "For protection against gun violence"?)
It doesn't get much clearer than that.
  #1174  
Old 11.02.2011, 02:14
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Not sure how much the EU has "interfered".
It's usually not the EU that interferes. It's much rather a part of the Swiss political and administrative elite who's hell-bent on becoming the EU's lap dog.
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Old 11.02.2011, 04:58
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Well, this time it's actually plain and simple:

It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Well, you are right about that. Doesnt get much more transparent. Too bad for the old dear.
  #1176  
Old 11.02.2011, 05:48
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Sad ... will this thread be locked shortly after the result is announced? I'll miss the ranting ...

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A steel fireproof cabinet with safelocks should be ok. ammo seperately
Hey, this bit sounds like part of the 'repressive' Australian laws!

It would also really get in the way of defending your home against an intruder - but since we're in Switzerland he or she would be polite enough to wait while you got the keys, spun the knob through the combination, got out your favourite, fetched the ammo, loaded and then aimed. Surely?
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Old 11.02.2011, 11:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I am aware that most politicians are against this innitiative.

the cabinets were introduced in most of europe about the same time as aussie law made people get safes.

Even if the yes vote comes through it seems a lot will not deposit their weapons, and it may result in another innitiative...

Swiss system is one of the best i have seen even though I may not always agree with how they do it.
like last year, the question was do you want minaretes yes / no

i heard a lot of talk, but hang on what about freedom of religion? there are allready building guidelines they would have had to follow... etc etc etc
  #1178  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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If we really wanted to stay out of the mainstream, I guess we shouldn't have given women the right to vote a few decades ago. Yeah, let's really be different!

Not sure how much the EU has "interfered". We voted against joining the EEA, but voted for Schengen. It has always been our choice on our relationship with the EU so I don't know what you are talking about.
Oh ... just voicing my own opinion on worldly matters, much like everyone else here.
  #1179  
Old 11.02.2011, 11:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Well, this time it's actually plain and simple:
Quote:
Wollen Sie die Volksinitiative "Für den Schutz vor Waffengewalt" annehmen?
(Do you want to accept the initiative "For protection against gun violence"?)
It doesn't get much clearer than that.
It is clearly not clear enough for some!

Any initiative that asks in principle "Do you want to say NO to guns? And to agree you say "yes" will lead to confusion, as has happened many time before with other proposals...
  #1180  
Old 11.02.2011, 12:31
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It is clearly not clear enough for some!
Along with the voting slip comes a booklet that explains what the vote is about as well as the arguments of both sides. If people can't be bothered to read the booklet and therefore misunderstand the question on the voting slip, it's their own fault, sorry.

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Any initiative that asks in principle "Do you want to say NO to guns? And to agree you say "yes" will lead to confusion, as has happened many time before with other proposals...
How far do you want to dumb it down? Pictographs on the voting slip? Direct democracy requires some minimum mental effort on the side of the voter to understand what (s)he's voting about (including the question on the voting slip!) and to make a decision. If people are unable or unwilling to make that minimum effort they probably shouldn't vote in the first place.
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