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  #1181  
Old 11.02.2011, 16:59
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It's usually not the EU that interferes. It's much rather a part of the Swiss political and administrative elite who's hell-bent on becoming the EU's lap dog.
Our own government as the bogeyman? Thanks to our direct democracy principles, it has always been our choice:

Referendum June 2005 on border controls following the Schengen treaty
Referendum September 2005 freedom of movement people (i.e., labour) between CH & EU
Referendum February 2009 extension of freedom of movement to new EU states Bulgaria and Romania
Referendum May 2009 Biometric passports accepted, a requirement of Schengen
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  #1182  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:06
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Our own government as the bogeyman? Thanks to our direct democracy principles, it has always been our choice:

Referendum June 2005 on border controls following the Schengen treaty
Referendum September 2005 freedom of movement people (i.e., labour) between CH & EU
Referendum February 2009 extension of freedom of movement to new EU states Bulgaria and Romania
Referendum May 2009 Biometric passports accepted, a requirement of Schengen
All stuff I voted against.

Tom
  #1183  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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All stuff I voted against.

Tom
But the people have spoken!
  #1184  
Old 11.02.2011, 17:55
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Maybe you voted yes, Tom, if the questions were worded as double negatives?
  #1185  
Old 11.02.2011, 18:02
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I'd like to thank you all for this interesting discussion. For me the "yes" was a no brainer, a given; but thanks to some EF members enlightening me on their reasons to vote against it, I will now at least vaguely comprehend why if it does not go through.

Lisa
  #1186  
Old 11.02.2011, 23:53
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Is CH safe now? Is it SAFE?

swiss-firearms-vote-feb-13-2011-mm.jpg
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  #1187  
Old 12.02.2011, 00:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Our own government as the bogeyman? Thanks to our direct democracy principles, it has always been our choice:

Referendum June 2005 on border controls following the Schengen treaty
Referendum September 2005 freedom of movement people (i.e., labour) between CH & EU
Referendum February 2009 extension of freedom of movement to new EU states Bulgaria and Romania
Referendum May 2009 Biometric passports accepted, a requirement of Schengen
I hate biometric passports and IDs.
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  #1188  
Old 12.02.2011, 03:06
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Is CH safe now? Is it SAFE?

Attachment 23519
One of the best scenes ever!
  #1189  
Old 12.02.2011, 03:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Feck me, this thread has suddenly gone very quiet

I still don't know whether to vote "Yes" to piss off all the "They wanna tek ma guns orff me, mah!" contingent, or vote "No" to piss off all the "If you want to have a gun, you must be a sick person." contingent.

Maybe, as a compromise, we need a new Initiative that will force people that don't want guns to have to have them, and those that do want them not to be allowed to have them...

Just a thought... So...

Aussieman, Oldfox, & all the other "No" popup traffic, plus all you genuine "NO"-ers, whatcha reckon?

Howabouts if lots of people were allowed guns but not you? Howabouts if for the people who didn't want guns at home, we made it compulsory???

All you "Yes"-ers, will you take control? I.e. , those who're tending towards a" Yes" vote must take these weapons and put them somewhere safe at home, cos those who're tending to a "No" clearly can't be trusted with the selfsame...

Whatcha reckon?


And just for the record, I never, ever, saw a British 762 that had had its finger-guard removed so you could fire it without taking your mitt off. No, Sirree, Bob (that would be against the rules...). I also never, ever saw a British 762 that had been "tweaked" for automatic fire (also against the rules).

So in Britain, at least, draconian rules clearly work...

My friend is not unfamiliar with both, apparently...

Oh, and regarding all the "you'll end up just like the UK" shit, my friend's shotguns and rifles (small and medium bore) are doing just fine, thank you for asking...

My friiend also suggests that there's those who've actually put a slug through someone, then there's those who never have have and never want to, and then there's the gobshites who haven't but think it's easy.
,
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  #1190  
Old 12.02.2011, 03:54
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I really don't know why I keep missing your anwser aussieman, you'll have to post it again for all our benefit...

We're all hanging on your double-stage release trigger for your reply...

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So tell us about the time you pointed a loaded gun at someone...
  • Did you squeeze that trigger?
  • Did you hit?
  • Was it a kill?
  • What were the legal consequences for you?
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  #1191  
Old 12.02.2011, 06:26
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Is CH safe now? Is it SAFE?
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One of the best scenes ever!
Just THINKING about that film makes my teeth hurt!
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  #1192  
Old 12.02.2011, 13:18
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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All stuff I voted against.

Tom
And I voted in favour
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  #1193  
Old 12.02.2011, 14:31
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Feck me, this thread has suddenly gone very quiet ,
That's probably because most people vote by mail and a few days or even weeks in advance of the actual voting day. E.g. I put my vote in our town hall's mailbox one week ago.
  #1194  
Old 12.02.2011, 15:27
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Most people i know voted NO

they are too afraid of where this may lead








I
  #1195  
Old 13.02.2011, 09:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Fingers crossed today that the Swiss will be brave enough to vote YES - and understand that this will move their country forwards not backwards.

I was reading in a newspaper here, even if this vote doesn't go through this time (blocked by the older and more traditional element of the population) - it will sure has hell go through in the future. They've started a movement and this one is not going to stop.

And when it goes through - what the majority of young people are hoping is that the next step will be the ending of military service. A 20 year old said "for our generation it won't happen but for the next there is hope"

In a world of professional armies and nuclear weapons - and the majority of countries having dropped military service including Germany - it's time for this age old tradition to also go! (The majority of Swiss people I know have said this)

Fingers crossed - and hope people of the cities and the West of Switzerland turn up in their thousands
  #1196  
Old 13.02.2011, 10:28
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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...The majority of Swiss people I know have said this...
Which is not too surprising if you asked in Basel.

They would resurrect and elect Lenin if he could sign his name, but later complain he wasn't bolshie enough.
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  #1197  
Old 13.02.2011, 11:47
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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it's time for this age old tradition to also go! (The majority of Swiss people I know have said this)
Well, the vast majority of Swiss that I know say the opposite.

I guess we know different Swiss people!

Tom
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  #1198  
Old 13.02.2011, 13:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Well, this starts lookin' real good... much better than I expected. Current prediction for the popular vote is 57% NO.
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:23
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Following a tradition, my Kater and I went to the library today to cast the ballot. Thinking back and forth, weighing pros and cons and waiting till the last hour…trying to be truly objective… maybe I wasn’t doing it right.

On one hand, I didn’t have much difficulty with the army weapons question even though the statistics regarding nr.of guns/nr.of crime are not that convincing, or at least are being disputed with equally (un-)convincing studies. I’m neither a gun lover nor a gun hater, but I don’t agree that we as a society are issuing guns through the military to so many households “just” because of tradition and convenience. These reasons are just not good enough for me to support doing this every year. On the other hand who am I to judge what a good reason is for a private person to own a gun, however weird I find it to have a gun for self-protection (gun and ammo should be locked away properly, yes take your time says the robber), especially if the person in question is not doing regular training. I mean self-protection implies the possible need to actually shoot someone…

So based on the doubts or disagreement on this point maybe I should have voted no. Even when trying to “reason” against it, my bias is obvious. However even in the unlikely case that the initiative will get past the popular vote and the Stšndemehr, thinking about how the majorities are in parliament I don’t see the law becoming very restrictive on private gun owners.

Btw. I’ve heard similar arguments from people who were for the Ausschaffungsinitiative (the doubtful points will be watered down in parliament so all it will do is getting other cantons to the “level of restrictiveness" of canton Zurich etc…). Enough rambling, have a nice day!
  #1200  
Old 13.02.2011, 13:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Well at least you gave it some thought, which is probably more that alot of sheep like Yes voters did. Good for you.
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