Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1221  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:07
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Well at least you gave it some thought, which is probably more that alot of sheep like Yes voters did. Good for you.
Are you calling me a sheep? I guess in your book there are 3 black sheep in this household, because we all voted yes.

Anyway, I prefer to think of myself as fleet-footed Swiss mountain goat. And I am protected so don't try this:
  #1222  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:11
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,510
Groaned at 45 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,136 Times in 1,363 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Anyway, I prefer to think of myself as fleet-footed Swiss mountain goat.
This post is useless without pictures.
  #1223  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:26
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 15
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
OldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisance
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."
International Correlation between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.' Professor Martin Killias, May 1993.


The US are number one in the world for the above, Switzerland number two. Those who think Switzerland have a low rate of violence need to open their eyes and look at the statistics. There is a statistical correlation between level of murder and suicide rates, and level of death by gunfire and legality of gun-ownership. There is simply NOT the level of accidental and violent death from gunfire in countries such as the UK where gun controls are stricter. Period. Look to national crime statistics for evidence.


I would just like to offer the above quotes as by "Stephanie" as a pure example of how the hysterical gun-banning brigade operates. They lie. Stephanie are you a bald-faced liar or are you simply clueless and brainwashed? US#1 in the world for above? Swiss #2?? This is an astonishing lie. Swiss and US may have the highest levels of private gun ownership, but Switzerland is the safest, most crime-free, country with the lowest murder and crime rate in the world. US has more crime than Swiss, but is not even among the higher crime/murder rates in the world (Mexico, South Africa, Brazil, El Sal) Dwarfes US crime rates among others. So "anti-gun" side, if your whole foundation of your philosophy, is based on a total 100% lie, what does that say about you?
Quote:
Quote:


Unless you live in the wilds and need to shoot for your food - there is absolutely NO sensible or sane reason to own a gun. People go on about freedom - freedom to kill people? Freedom to kill yourself? Freedom to have kids die from accidental gun accidents? Freedom to in a moment of madness (the legal plea in psychology for 'diminished manslaughter') pick up a gun and shoot in a conflict?
the ranting of a hysterical? more the crafty words of a deliberate propagandist, designed to play on womens emotions. We don't need to justify our gun ownership to the likes of you. And if you think guns are really that harmful, quick run and tell the police in your country, I'm sure they'll be quick to disarm in the light of your powerful argument.
Quote:


The idea of personal freedom can if one argues along such lines be taken to such extremes as to defend all kinds of damaging and criminal behavior 'because it's part of personal freedom'.
The only damaging behavior here is when tyrants disarm the victims. Ask the Ukrainians under Stalin, the Cambodians or that special little group which I dare not name what it feels like to be disarmed. Why do you want people to be disarmed, what is your real motive?
Quote:


Many people seem to attach romantic ideals to gun ownership. Parties like the SVP use posters with ridiculous images suggesting we'll all be at the mercy of gun-wielding robbers if we're not armed. Such tosh. Many people with guns here keep them in the cellar so even if the highly unlikely situation of a gun wielding robber entering ones house at night manifested, people would hardly be sleeping next to their loaded rifle poised and ready to defend.


Having guns to shoot down predators and defend one self and ones family against crime is just a bonus, the real reason we keep our guns is for when you come to take them. We need to be ready. Remember what happened to the poor Armenians. They didn't have guns.

Quote:
Quote:


Misplaced notions of masculinity, the male defending his territory or going off hunting have also bee cited in defense of gun freedoms. Such ridiculous stereotypes seem to belong in the same place as the ones where women are barefoot, pregnant and tied to the kitchen sink. Firmly in the murky past and certainly not in a so called civilized society.
"An armed society is a polite society" And you will find out how civilized we are when you come to take our guns. The last time anybody tried that in America was Gen Gage in 1775. Nobody has tried since but you are welcome to. I recommend the Swiss keep your arms and your freedom as well, and not fall victim to lies/emotional appeals nonsense and manipulation to disarm you from NGO NWO and UN would-be tyrants.
Quote:

That's my take on this situation.
A pack of lies and insults. Really original "take." Pretty good HTML poison in your post as well, so I can't quote and respond.

Quote:
View Post
I'm puzzled, how are guns portrayed on TV on a day to day basis?

If anything, guns usually get a positive light on TV. Although they also like to give the impression that all criminals have guns.
On US TV, most shows (I don't watch TV, but sometimes you see adds when watching a big sporting event) most of the adds for shows and new shows, portray heavily armed police and secret police in heroic roles, in civilian clothes with guns strapped all over them. I guess this should be good for our side, it shows no sensible person would ever go about his business unarmed.
  #1224  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:28
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

I think that some of you foreigners are more trigger happy than the real Swiss! I wonder why?

Oh well I guess that Swiss army men like my dad's cousin who choose to shoot themselves still have that option. One Swiss less huh?
  #1225  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:34
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 2,006
Groaned at 192 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 2,939 Times in 958 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Guns don't kill people.

It's the bullets.
The following 2 users would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #1226  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 91
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 25 Posts
Aussieman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

To place comments like "it might have saved one life" iis such an idiotic comment

if we rid the world of knives we might save one life, or cadle holders, or anything else. Admit it you people just hate guns and want to punish those who do with your idiotic goals.

There is always misuse of anything you cannot prevent every death by bans or similar.

Make everything legal with education
The following 4 users would like to thank Aussieman for this useful post:
  #1227  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 15
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
OldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisance
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
"Well listen up" who said I would not accept the result?? The initiative is defeated.

Personally I think it's a pity, because anything that reduces weapons is a good thing...
Funny that's exactly what the Turks told the Armenians, right before they took their guns and killed them. How many million Armenian Christians were disarmed by the Turks and killed? As Europeans you were closer to it than Americans, so you should know more about the mass-killings of the disarmed Armenians than I do.

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/LawRev/lethal.htm

As an emotion-driven empty-head, I'm sure you are not interested in history or the truth, how gun registration and confiscation are necessary steps prior to a genocide, but in case any readers are-

http://www.truth-it.net/guns_and_genocide.html
This user would like to thank OldFox for this useful post:
  #1228  
Old 13.02.2011, 17:56
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,525
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,741 Times in 4,346 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Funny that's exactly what the Turks told the Armenians, right before they took their guns and killed them.
We have our eyes peeled for those Turks. Thanks for the tip.
Quote:
View Post
As an emotion-driven empty-head, I'm sure you are not interested in history or the truth, how gun registration and confiscation are necessary steps prior to a genocide, but in case any readers are-
Even as an "emotion-driven empty-head", I find your insults as childish as your arguments. Seems you know zero about Switzerland and are a cowboy obsessed by guns. Grow up...
The following 6 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #1229  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:00
cannnuck's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 55
Groaned at 11 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 19 Posts
cannnuck has become a little unpopularcannnuck has become a little unpopular
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

every one in my house also voted no!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This user would like to thank cannnuck for this useful post:
  #1230  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 15
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
OldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisanceOldFox is considered a nuisance
You're Welcome Switzerland!!

Quote:
View Post
(Nice first post.)
I gave it considerable thought - and voted "Yes". If it stopped one loss of life, it was worth it...
I guess that is what the Armenians thought as they turned in their guns. How many million of them did the Turks kill? I mean that sucked because they were disarmed and stuff but I guess you're cool with that They turned in their guns like they should.

Quote:
View Post
I think that some of you foreigners are more trigger happy than the real Swiss! I wonder why?
No one is more trigger happy than the Swiss. I take off my AK-47 hat to the Swiss. Never surrender! Don't thank me no need to thank me, it was really my pleasure to help you win that vote and preserve your freedom I did it for Gen. Guisan! His powerful words moved me!
Quote:

Oh well I guess that Swiss army men like my dad's cousin who choose to shoot themselves still have that option. One Swiss less huh?
Sir that is outrageous slander and you have cut me deeply. I would never hope for, encourage, or enable even one person, Swiss or otherwise, to commit suicide. Sad and tragic, suicide is a cultural issue, totally and 100% not related to gun ownership. For an example, please see gun-free, disarmed Korea and China, no guns allowed, high suicide rates. It is easy to use pills or an oven or hang to death if a person makes that choice in any nation. Your uncle could have killed himself if guns had never been invented so to put that in my lap is slanderous.

BTW it seems we have a low suicide rate here in America in the midst of all these dangerous guns. Could some gun-hating hoplophobe please help me understand that I'm really confused?
This user would like to thank OldFox for this useful post:
  #1231  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:12
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: You're Welcome Switzerland!!

Quote:
View Post
I guess that is what the Armenians thought as they turned in their guns. How many million of them did the Turks kill? I mean that sucked because they were disarmed and stuff but I guess you're cool with that They turned in their guns like they should.



BTW it seems we have a low suicide rate here in America in the midst of all these dangerous guns. Could some gun-hating hoplophobe please help me understand that I'm really confused?
You have to see guns in a cultural context. What is good for the US does not immediately translate to what is good for the Swiss. Personally I am in favour of keeping the Swiss Military service, although it costs the country quite a bit to maintain. I hope my son serves. I would also like my daughter to serve, but that they do not keep their guns at home.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1232  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Elsewhere
Posts: 332
Groaned at 15 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 320 Times in 151 Posts
Brass427 has earned the respect of manyBrass427 has earned the respect of manyBrass427 has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
I can't help wondering...

...how voting according to one's conscience makes one a bully.

...how voting according to one's conscience constitutes a failure to accept the popular vote.

...how you expect to "vote down" something in Switzerland (which has somehow become "[y]our country"), when Ireland is the only nationality indicated in your profile.

sorry, but with that avatar you have change your name to "Tim".
The following 2 users would like to thank Brass427 for this useful post:
  #1233  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:39
altehase's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rikon im Tösstal
Posts: 91
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 59 Times in 26 Posts
altehase has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Strange, but not unusual, that a discussion on the Swiss referendum ended up with the Turks versus the Armenians. The placards set out by the SVP had nothing to do with the referendum, but were typical of the SVP agenda. They were a lift from the NRA (I remember these billboards from my 12 years in the USA "if we criminalise guns, only the criminals will have guns"). The SVP wants to return Switzerland to "traditional Swiss values" but ignores that the world and Europe has moved on. Unless Swiss troops under UNO command are allowed to fight, I see no reason to have the troops armed, so no reason to have a gun at home. But perhaps I have missed news of an invasion from Liechtenstein!
  #1234  
Old 13.02.2011, 18:51
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,231
Groaned at 2,466 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,331 Times in 18,538 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You're Welcome Switzerland!!

Quote:
View Post
You have to see guns in a cultural context. What is good for the US does not immediately translate to what is good for the Swiss. Personally I am in favour of keeping the Swiss Military service, although it costs the country quite a bit to maintain. I hope my son serves. I would also like my daughter to serve, but that they do not keep their guns at home.
My older step-son got out of it, and the younger one retired at 27, as the two peace-keeping tours he did in the Balkans counted towards his obligation. He chose not to keep his gun, as was his right to do.

Tom
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #1235  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:01
CHexo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Zürich
Posts: 178
Groaned at 27 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 178 Times in 79 Posts
CHexo has earned some respectCHexo has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

William Tell would be proud. Resist!

This user would like to thank CHexo for this useful post:
  #1236  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:31
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
This is such a mindless argument.

Guns don't get me where I want to go. Cars, trains and planes do.
Guns are not a place to live or work in.
Guns don't cross rivers and gorges.

I can't be bothered writing any more...
But the problem is that guns have (for centuries) and still do get many people where they want to go.

I have never bought the "if it saves just one life" argument because society demonstrates every day that it really doesn't care unless they think it might affect them or theirs directly. If this was other than so then why do we tolerate so much of what be buy being made by slave labour and why would we tacitly agree with our governments when they link up with Fascists and brutal dictatators and tyrants when it only serves to make oil or other natural resources cheaper.

If it saves just one life. That should apply in these situations too, but some how our collective will isn't focused on these issues. Maybe cause we just really don't care that much. I know I didn't until I adopted a child from India. Now it matters to me because it affected her. I just don't think that we should expect everyone to feel the same in every case. Maybe some but not all.

BTW, just another side thought, the anti suicide argument isn't going to help Dignitas much, is it.
__________________
Many men, of course, became extremely rich, but this was perfectly natural, and nothing to be ashamed of, because no one was really poor -- at least no one worth speaking of. - Douglas Adams
The following 3 users would like to thank the_clangers for this useful post:
  #1237  
Old 13.02.2011, 19:52
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
This is good news 57% NO vote. Time for the anti's to move into an anti country so they can live with themselves
Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga, who was against the initiative, is now to pick up specific aspects of the initiative and move ahead with them into law-making

56% NO is acceptable. It is a clear rejection of a far reaching relatively radical proposal, while the YES from Zurich must be a clear warning to the militarists.
  #1238  
Old 13.02.2011, 20:51
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,047
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,985 Times in 1,430 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
sorry, but with that avatar you have change your name to "Tim".
"Tim" is already taken.

(But "Tim" is my real name — does that count?)
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #1239  
Old 13.02.2011, 22:15
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
Funny that's exactly what the Turks told the Armenians, right before they took their guns and killed them. How many million Armenian Christians were disarmed by the Turks and killed? As Europeans you were closer to it than Americans, so you should know more about the mass-killings of the disarmed Armenians than I do.

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/LawRev/lethal.htm

As an emotion-driven empty-head, I'm sure you are not interested in history or the truth, how gun registration and confiscation are necessary steps prior to a genocide, but in case any readers are-

http://www.truth-it.net/guns_and_genocide.html
The Armenians were not disarmed, but armed enough to do, in the early 1910s, assassination attempts against Enver Pasha and Talaat Pasha, two members of the ruling triumvirate who governed the Turkish Empire in the 1910s
  #1240  
Old 13.02.2011, 22:29
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,231
Groaned at 2,466 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,331 Times in 18,538 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Quote:
View Post
the YES from Zurich must be a clear warning to the militarists.
The YES from Zurich is as marginal as it gets.

It is hardly a warning.

Reality is that most cantons were 60-70% against (63.5% here).

I really don't care about Zurich.

Add any of the mini cantons (other than AI) to the Zurich results, and it would have gone the other way.

Please...

Tom
Closed Thread

Tags
army, guns, referendum, tradition, weapons




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Withdrawing your labour 4th Feb 2011 Ittigen Daily life 45 21.12.2010 11:52
..Moving near Rolle, Vaud in Feb 2011 swiss2011 Introductions 1 15.12.2010 10:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0