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Old 13.02.2011, 21:35
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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[...]while the YES from Zurich must be a clear warning to the militarists.
I don't see why the Zurich yes vote should be all that important. If you have a closer look at the Zurich results you'll quickly find out that the initiative was clearly approved in the two major cities of the canton, i.e. Zurich and Winterthur. In almost all other municipalities it was rejected with the exception of a few suburban communities or smaller cities (Thalwil, Uster) where it was approved by a small margin. Basically the situation is not much different than in Basel or Geneva.
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  #1242  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

As soon as swiss soldiers with "auslander" roots(with an "ic, ov,Ahmed or Ali names) surpasses soldiers with names like Hanspeter,Hansueli,meier or brunner then SP will be victorious
  #1243  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The YES from Zurich is as marginal as it gets.

It is hardly a warning.

Reality is that most cantons were 60-70% against (63.5% here).

I really don't care about Zurich.

Add any of the mini cantons (other than AI) to the Zurich results, and it would have gone the other way.

Please...

Tom
You have not to "care" about the vote of the Canton of Zurich, but the vote of the Canton of Zurich will be the one of Schaffhausen, Thurgau, St. Gallen, Glarus, Aargau, Solothurn and Bern in a few years, not least as a new initiative will be less far reaching and more moderate. Beside the point that the Canton of Zurich is some 16% of Switzerland, and often is a bit ahead of the pack
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Old 13.02.2011, 21:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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You have not to "care" about the vote of the Canton of Zurich, but the vote of the Canton of Zurich will be the one of Schaffhausen, Thurgau, St. Gallen, Glarus, Aargau, Solothurn and Bern in a few years,
Why?

BE, SH, etc. were all heavily AGAINST!



Why would they change so quickly?

Tom
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  #1245  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:48
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I don't see why the Zurich yes vote should be all that important. If you have a closer look at the Zurich results you'll quickly find out that the initiative was clearly approved in the two major cities of the canton, i.e. Zurich and Winterthur. In almost all other municipalities it was rejected with the exception of a few suburban communities or smaller cities (Thalwil, Uster) where it was approved by a small margin. Basically the situation is not much different than in Basel or Geneva.
The cities of Zürich and Winterthur are trendsetters, not just inside the Canton of Zurich, but unionwide. Luckily enough, the business in question is not in the hands of Defence Minister Maurer, but in the hands of wise Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga, who opposed the initiative as too radical and too far-reaching but now will take up aspects out of the initiative. New laws will result and the conservatives then will bring about referenda, and the outcome THEN will be YES majorities. I have to admit to have been among those who underestimated Mrs Sommaruga
  #1246  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:52
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As soon as swiss soldiers with "auslander" roots(with an "ic, ov,Ahmed or Ali names) surpasses soldiers with names like Hanspeter,Hansueli,meier or brunner then SP will be victorious
reality check..this is already happening, at least where I'm serving (well surpassing...whatever, to each his own).

edith: eeh aha, maybe you had something different in mind, ok..

Last edited by jj muge; 13.02.2011 at 22:06. Reason: misunderstanding..
  #1247  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:57
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The cities of Zürich and Winterthur are trendsetters, not just inside the Canton of Zurich, but unionwide. Luckily enough, the business in question is not in the hands of Defence Minister Maurer, but in the hands of wise Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga, who opposed the initiative as too radical and too far-reaching but now will take up aspects out of the initiative. New laws will result and the conservatives then will bring about referenda, and the outcome THEN will be YES majorities. I have to admit to have been among those who underestimated Mrs Sommaruga
In that case, it's time for the Ticinese and Grigionese to blow up the tunnels!

You stay on your side, and we'll stay on ours!

(actually, it was quite nice a couple years ago when the Gotthard was only open to people with UR and TI registrations for most of the summer)

Tom
  #1248  
Old 13.02.2011, 21:59
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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As soon as swiss soldiers with "auslander" roots(with an "ic, ov,Ahmed or Ali names) surpasses soldiers with names like Hanspeter,Hansueli,meier or brunner then SP will be victorious
May be or not. Many people from the "Outer Mediterranean" are politically conservative. A family of intellectuals of Alexandria/Egypt origin in recent years got CH nationality and joined the SP and improved their local position quite nicely. But ahead of us are the days when more down to the earth folks out of the Med will join the CH-nation and may join CVP, FDP or SVP.
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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In that case, it's time for the Ticinese and Grigionese to blow up the tunnels!

You stay on your side, and we'll stay on ours!

(actually, it was quite nice a couple years ago when the Gotthard was only open to people with UR and TI registrations for most of the summer)

Tom
The "blowing up" installations are under control by "Mi-Kompanien" with ZH majorities and under the command of GR/TI officers educated in Zürich who have ZH opinions
And this even applies to positions between TI and Italy
Even to positions legally inside the Italian Republic like the Val di Livigno
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The "blowing up" installations are under control by "Mi-Kompanien" with ZH majorities and under the command of GR/TI officers educated in Zürich who have ZH opinions
And this even applies to positions between TI and Italy
Even to positions legally inside the Italian Republic like the Val di Livigno
Seems that a lot come to TI for artillery training in Isone, no?

Tom
  #1251  
Old 13.02.2011, 22:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Why?

BE, SH, etc. were all heavily AGAINST!



Why would they change so quickly?

Tom
Quickly ? Nothing in CH politics happens quckly ! And if an initiative or referendum is about a far LESS radical law the situation is to change seriously practically overnight. The matter no longer is in the hands of those feminists and heavy-handed left-wingers but in the hands of our shrewd Federal Justice Minister
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:11
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Seems that a lot come to TI for artillery training in Isone, no?

Tom
Sure yes, but also for artillery WKs in the Magadino area, and many places like the Valle Mesolcina for EKs of the Mi-forces to check all those "blow-up" installations
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:42
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Don't worry about Wolli. He mostly only speaks for himself.

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In that case, it's time for the Ticinese and Grigionese to blow up the tunnels!

You stay on your side, and we'll stay on ours!

(actually, it was quite nice a couple years ago when the Gotthard was only open to people with UR and TI registrations for most of the summer)

Tom
  #1254  
Old 13.02.2011, 22:55
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Don't worry about Wolli. He mostly only speaks for himself.
Most people speak for themselves. Above I spoke for more than a million people (Canton of Zurich / artillery / Mi forces / people in cities in German speaking Switzerland / military forces union-wide / etc ) And you OUGHT to speak for yourself when giving your opinion on an internet forum. Unless you are an official spokesman of a party or organisation
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:55
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

It was close. Time moves on. Times change, it took women a while to win the right to vote. One day guns will be under stricter control in Switzerland and one day military service will be abolished. I think I will live to see the day.
  #1256  
Old 13.02.2011, 22:57
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Results make me proud to be an adapted Baselerin. Basel, Zurich, Geneva all majority yes votes.
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Old 13.02.2011, 22:58
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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You have not to "care" about the vote of the Canton of Zurich, but the vote of the Canton of Zurich will be the one of Schaffhausen, Thurgau, St. Gallen, Glarus, Aargau, Solothurn and Bern in a few years, not least as a new initiative will be less far reaching and more moderate. Beside the point that the Canton of Zurich is some 16% of Switzerland, and often is a bit ahead of the pack

He's right you know
  #1258  
Old 13.02.2011, 23:06
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]

I would just like to offer the above quotes as by "Stephanie" as a pure example of how the hysterical gun-banning brigade operates. They lie. Stephanie are you a bald-faced liar or are you simply clueless and brainwashed? US#1 in the world for above? Swiss #2?? This is an astonishing lie. Swiss and US may have the highest levels of private gun ownership, but Switzerland is the safest, most crime-free, country with the lowest murder and crime rate in the world. US has more crime than Swiss, but is not even among the higher crime/murder rates in the world (Mexico, South Africa, Brazil, El Sal) Dwarfes US crime rates among others. So "anti-gun" side, if your whole foundation of your philosophy, is based on a total 100% lie, what does that say about you?the ranting of a hysterical? more the crafty words of a deliberate propagandist, designed to play on womens emotions. We don't need to justify our gun ownership to the likes of you. And if you think guns are really that harmful, quick run and tell the police in your country, I'm sure they'll be quick to disarm in the light of your powerful argument.The only damaging behavior here is when tyrants disarm the victims. Ask the Ukrainians under Stalin, the Cambodians or that special little group which I dare not name what it feels like to be disarmed. Why do you want people to be disarmed, what is your real motive?[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1][SIZE=2]

Having guns to shoot down predators and defend one self and ones family against crime is just a bonus, the real reason we keep our guns is for when you come to take them. We need to be ready. Remember what happened to the poor Armenians. They didn't have guns.

"An armed society is a polite society" And you will find out how civilized we are when you come to take our guns. The last time anybody tried that in America was Gen Gage in 1775. Nobody has tried since but you are welcome to. I recommend the Swiss keep your arms and your freedom as well, and not fall victim to lies/emotional appeals nonsense and manipulation to disarm you from NGO NWO and UN would-be tyrants.
A pack of lies and insults. Really original "take." Pretty good HTML poison in your post as well, so I can't quote and respond.



On US TV, most shows (I don't watch TV, but sometimes you see adds when watching a big sporting event) most of the adds for shows and new shows, portray heavily armed police and secret police in heroic roles, in civilian clothes with guns strapped all over them. I guess this should be good for our side, it shows no sensible person would ever go about his business unarmed.

Fox - where do you get your statistics from? In my posts I later cited my statistics as coming from the British Crime Survey and the US Department of Justice. I suppose they both lie too?

Clearly you have a different opinion to mine, you are entitled to your opinion we live in a society with freedom of thought and speech.

But instead of attacking me in many personal ways in an attempt to dismantle my argument, it'd be more effective if you gave sane and solid reasons and arguments for your point of view, to get me and others to see the other side. I'm not sure attacking me and calling me stupid and a liar adds credence to your argument. You called me emotional. Clearly there is no emotion at all in your own posts
  #1259  
Old 13.02.2011, 23:09
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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It was close. Time moves on. Times change, it took women a while to win the right to vote. One day guns will be under stricter control in Switzerland and one day military service will be abolished. I think I will live to see the day.
I also look forward to see the day when the mandatory military service will be completely abolished or replaced by a professional army
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Old 13.02.2011, 23:16
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

For trendsetting, one only needs to look at the Romands! We always were in advance of the pack.

Today's result was what I expected; I thought it was going to be 55/45. But nearly half wanted it so I am happy.

Switzerland always modernise rather late (reject women suffrage then accept, reject the UN then accept, reject EEA then accept bilateral accords). So one day, I know I will see military weapons out of the home and the introduction of a professional army.

Edit: I see great minds think alike.

Last edited by Suisse2008; 13.02.2011 at 23:18. Reason: add after's Wolli's comment
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