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Old 11.01.2011, 17:03
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

Oh brother! We'll get Charlton Heston back from the grave and get the NRA angle on our impending referendum too no doubt....

The usual "happiness is a warm gun" and "suck my Glock" comments are not eagerly waited on this thread BTW....
  #142  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:20
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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2. Yes, provided you have a specific permit for carrying a weapon (different from the permit to own the weapon, higher hurdles apply). The concept of private individuals carrying weapons openly is alien to most European countries (apart from hunters, members of historical societies and the like).
This specific permit is the Waffentragschein and I think your answer gives a bit of the wrong idea to an American - you do not just fill out some form and then you can walk around with a gun. You need to explicitely have a reason why you need to be allowed to carry a gun around in order to protect yourself or others. In short: Only professional working for example for security services or a cash transport provider or the like get a permit like that and can walk around with a gun. They typically do so openly and not concealed.

So in my eyes is the answer closer to a "no, with a few exceptions" than a "yes".

In Switzerland it is generally pretty easy to get a gun, but you are only allowed to carry it to or from a range and keep it at home. Fortunately.
  #143  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:28
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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This specific permit is the Waffentragschein and I think your answer gives a bit of the wrong idea to an American - you do not just fill out some form and then you can walk around with a gun. You need to explicitely have a reason why you need to be allowed to carry a gun around in order to protect yourself or others. In short: Only professional working for example for security services or a cash transport provider or the like get a permit like that and can walk around with a gun. They typically do so openly and not concealed.
I did say that higher hurdles apply, didn't I ?
The question was whether "civilians" can carry a weapon. People can carry weapons in their professional capacity (police, airline security,...), and some of them carry them openly.
One can also get a license to carry a gun if one can claim that they are in danger. I'd assume that these weapons are not carried openly. And yes, such permits are handed out quite restrictively.
  #144  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:34
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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I did say that higher hurdles apply, didn't I ?
The question was whether "civilians" can carry a weapon. People can carry weapons in their professional capacity (police, airline security,...), and some of them carry them openly.
One can also get a license to carry a gun if one can claim that they are in danger. I'd assume that these weapons are not carried openly. And yes, such permits are handed out quite restrictively.
All true - I just wanted to make it clear that our American friend will not misunderstand that he is very likely not allowed to go hiking with a pistol here... not even for hunting. (Seriously, why do you hunt with a pistol?)
  #145  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:38
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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(Seriously, why do you hunt with a pistol?)
Because of the thrill of having to get closer to the target ? Some people also hunt with bows or cross-bows.
But then, what would you want to hunt in Switzerland ? Marmots ? Many species like capricorns are protected.
  #146  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:46
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Because of the thrill of having to get closer to the target ? Some people also hunt with bows or cross-bows.
But then, what would you want to hunt in Switzerland ? Marmots ? Many species like capricorns are protected.
i guess you have to be selective in what you hunt. i can imagine some animals shot with a pistol will manage to rip you to shreds before wandering off any dying somewhere.
  #147  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:48
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Many species like capricorns are protected.
Hmmm... I have colleagues from Graubünden who hunt them...?! So I guess they are protected in the sense that there are limits on how many are shot a year?

Found it: 500 a year in Graubünden: http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?i...0-7561d9435882

You are only allowed to shoot one if you are a hunter for 25 years and win a ticket in a lottery!
  #148  
Old 11.01.2011, 17:52
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

The US should be paying very close attention to this.
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Old 11.01.2011, 18:05
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Re: Gun crime in CH?

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Fact: They do not have machine guns at home. It is the second time somebody mixes this up...
The assault rifles many Swiss soldiers still keep at home are machine guns. The older Stgw 57 is a light machine gun with a rather small magazine, and the newer Stgw 90 is somewhat closer to a submachine gun, but, according to most international criteria and also, e.g., the US Gun Law, even pure-bred submachine guns still are machine guns.

Or am I missing something?
  #150  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:10
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Yes, what do you think of Sarah Palin? Isn't she the greatest?


I expect you don't think much of her?
  #151  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:12
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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But then, what would you want to hunt in Switzerland ?
Wild boar, deer, small game, birds.

I frequently see hunters around here.

And game (all of the above, in fact).

Tom
  #152  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:29
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Oh brother! We'll get Charlton Heston back from the grave and get the NRA angle on our impending referendum too no doubt....

The usual "happiness is a warm gun" and "suck my Glock" comments are not eagerly waited on this thread BTW....
Assassin: No sir, I will not judge - I am not a citizen of your country. I can understand the basis for your comments, and that very well may happen - but such will not come from me.

I am simply trying to understand the social issues here and what would optimize individual freedoms without affecting security.

So far I am under the opinion that it is not an issue on how guns are regulated, but rather it is a cultural difference that leads to violence.

The reason I am posting on this thread is that the discussion of this particular issue may help me understand one country's citizen's opinions of a key issue that is part of a much broader scope.
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  #153  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:34
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Re: Gun crime in CH?

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The assault rifles many Swiss soldiers still keep at home are machine guns. The older Stgw 57 is a light machine gun with a rather small magazine, and the newer Stgw 90 is somewhat closer to a submachine gun, but, according to most international criteria and also, e.g., the US Gun Law, even pure-bred submachine guns still are machine guns.

Or am I missing something?
I have read every post in this thread - it leads me to believe that some soldiers are keeping such guns in their homes - but not the ammo - or IF the ammo, such is a sealed package that shall not be opened without militia or state (both?/same?) authority.

Without ammo, such guns have the weapon usefulness of a similar length steel pipe. How would it be logical to even concern ones self with guns lacking ammo?
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  #154  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:35
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Wild boar, deer, small game, birds.

I frequently see hunters around here.

And game (all of the above, in fact).

Tom
Thank you Tom, these are game species that are hunted here as well.
  #155  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:36
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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The US should be paying very close attention to this.
Thank you Ke.
  #156  
Old 11.01.2011, 18:36
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Re: Gun crime in CH?

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I have read every post in this thread - it leads me to believe that some soldiers are keeping such guns in their homes - but not the ammo - or IF the ammo, such is a sealed package that shall not be opened without militia or state (both?/same?) authority.

Without ammo, such guns have the weapon usefulness of a similar length steel pipe. How would it be logical to even concern ones self with guns lacking ammo?
Ammo can always be obtained.

NATO ammo works in Swiss guns (but not vice-versa)!

Tom
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Old 11.01.2011, 19:05
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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All true - I just wanted to make it clear that our American friend will not misunderstand that he is very likely not allowed to go hiking with a pistol here... not even for hunting. (Seriously, why do you hunt with a pistol?)
Thank you two.

I hunt with a pistol because I enjoy the challenge of hunting with a pistol. I am an expert marksman with all firearms, but enjoy hunting with one.

Also, I happen to be a forester. In the past, it has been somewhat convenient to combine hunting while working. This is mostly for ruffed grouse (a bird similar to a partridge) during the season - and I am a licensed hunter while doing this.

Although I haven't done this is several years since I mostly work for private landowner clients now - The interest was solidified via the initial convenience. This year I went hunting with a Glock autopistol (10mm).

Animals of all species are hunted in America with pistols, though rifles and shotguns are much more popular.
  #158  
Old 11.01.2011, 19:08
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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i guess you have to be selective in what you hunt. i can imagine some animals shot with a pistol will manage to rip you to shreds before wandering off any dying somewhere.
Those animals are in Africa, not Switzerland.

Even Brown bears are hunted with pistols in America.

Does Switzerland or even the whole of Western Europe have anything that would rip someone to shreds more easily than a Brown bear?
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Old 11.01.2011, 19:11
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Re: Gun crime in CH?

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Ammo can always be obtained.

NATO ammo works in Swiss guns (but not vice-versa)!

Tom
Ok, now it makes more sense.

Is that ammo (5.56NATO or 7.62NATO for example) able to be obtained legally (for the off-duty soldier) now?
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Old 11.01.2011, 19:15
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Re: Swiss Firearms Vote Feb 13, 2011

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Those animals are in Africa, not Switzerland.

Even Brown bears are hunted with pistols in America.

Does Switzerland or even the whole of Western Europe have anything that would rip someone to shreds more easily than a Brown bear?
yes, i wasn't referring only to switzerland. i don't think switzerland has anything other than the occasional marauding bear from austria...
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