Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12.01.2011, 07:58
Bertrand - Geneva
 
Posts: n/a
Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

A google translation of an interesting article : http://www.tdg.ch/actu/economie/immi...eve-2011-01-12


Each percent higher in the number of arrivals in Switzerland cause up to 3.5% increase on the price of apartments.

Immigration helps especially rising housing costs in Switzerland.
Each percent higher in the number of newcomers would generate 2.7% increase on the sale price of houses.
And 3.5% on those buildings containing several apartments.

This result emerges from the research of two experts from the Swiss National Bank (SNB), Kathrin Degen and Andreas M. Fischer. This study focuses on data collected between 2001 to 2006.

During this period, the authors observed the evolution of prices in 85 regions.
Some are little affected by immigration, others attract the majority of newcomers, starting with the Lake Geneva area. Within seconds exceeded increases of 9% to 15% those found in the former.

Seduction at all times
"Over the last decade, immigration could therefore cause an inflation of over 25% in the sales price of homes. And participation in raising rates would increase to about two thirds.
This is only an extrapolation of the results of our own investigation, but it seems quite plausible, "says Andreas Fischer.

The heavy impact of this exogenous demand on the Lake Geneva area does not seem challenged. "This region has greatly benefited from the immigration of skilled labor. This has accelerated since 2007. A workforce whose incomes are higher than the overall population, " notes Sara Camazzi Weber, Assistant Economic Research Service of Credit Suisse.

The rate of arrivals
can include the strengthening of the trend. Nearly 161,000 foreigners live in the Pays de Vaud in 2000, against 39,000 over last year. The foreign population has grown by more than 28 000 people in the canton of Geneva during the same period.

Market control
Lake Geneva also attracted even in times of economic crisis. And it's not that small teams of high-performing hedge funds fleeing the UK Inland Revenue.
In February 2009, Japan Tobacco International, the third cigarette of the planet, has announced the creation of 400 new jobs over five years in Geneva. Many of its employees will move naturally to the east of the motorway.

The tension becomes so strong in these markets that the term housing bubble is no longer taboo. Thirty-three of the sixty banks surveyed last month by consultant Ernst & Young and confirm the existence of this risk. And 58% of establishments contacted share the view of regulators: the country's banks are showing increasing flexibility in the criteria related to the granting of mortgage loans (except-to-policy).

The threat of overheating worries the general secretary of the Asloca romand Carlo Sommaruga: "The free movement of citizens of the European Union is responsible for a sharp deterioration in the housing market for lower classes. Accompanying measures must be taken urgently to protect it. As well as those on the labor market. "

The donor side, expectations are lower. "The current situation is unhealthy and does not facilitate the work of the commissioners. We must therefore accelerate the construction of new homes, hopes the president of the Swiss real estate professionals, Hugh Hiltpold.

According to Geneva, the upward trend will persist, "Especially in the villas and buildings in PPE (condominiums).

Whether in Geneva or in the region between Nyon and Prangins. "Experts estimate that rents have also increased in Switzerland of at least 15% between 2000 and 2010 because of immigration.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 12.01.2011, 11:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,661
Groaned at 23 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 3,311 Times in 1,742 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Thanks, yes, good article and I truly believe it.

Several years ago a friend was househunting when the first wave of P&G staff were relocated here, everything got snapped up in hours and the prices just went skyrocketing. It didn't help that such companies often provided financial assistance, downpayments, or more to outprice anyone else looking for housing at that time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 12.01.2011, 12:29
Bertrand - Geneva
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

I read last year in the newspaper that Coca-Cola company wanted to bring in Geneva its European Headquarter...... or something like that....

Going to be more and more difficult to find a flat ....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13.01.2011, 00:43
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

For Swiss, this is either good news or bad news. Good news for Swiss homeowners in the Geneva area but bad news for other Swiss coming in from other parts of the country looking for a new apartment or home.

P.S. My apologies. I skimmed Bertrand's article and assumed it only applied to the Geneva area. In fact, it's for all of Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13.01.2011, 18:06
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pole_from_sweden has no particular reputation at present
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

I wonder how the prices in Zurich changed because of the immigration...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:05
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
A google translation of an interesting article : http://www.tdg.ch/actu/economie/immi...eve-2011-01-12


Each percent higher in the number of arrivals in Switzerland cause up to 3.5% increase on the price of apartments.

Immigration helps especially rising housing costs in Switzerland.
Each percent higher in the number of newcomers would generate 2.7% increase on the sale price of houses.
And 3.5% on those buildings containing several apartments.

This result emerges from the research of two experts from the Swiss National Bank (SNB), Kathrin Degen and Andreas M. Fischer. This study focuses on data collected between 2001 to 2006.

During this period, the authors observed the evolution of prices in 85 regions.
Some are little affected by immigration, others attract the majority of newcomers, starting with the Lake Geneva area. Within seconds exceeded increases of 9% to 15% those found in the former.

Seduction at all times
"Over the last decade, immigration could therefore cause an inflation of over 25% in the sales price of homes. And participation in raising rates would increase to about two thirds.
This is only an extrapolation of the results of our own investigation, but it seems quite plausible, "says Andreas Fischer.

The heavy impact of this exogenous demand on the Lake Geneva area does not seem challenged. "This region has greatly benefited from the immigration of skilled labor. This has accelerated since 2007. A workforce whose incomes are higher than the overall population, " notes Sara Camazzi Weber, Assistant Economic Research Service of Credit Suisse.

The rate of arrivals
can include the strengthening of the trend. Nearly 161,000 foreigners live in the Pays de Vaud in 2000, against 39,000 over last year. The foreign population has grown by more than 28 000 people in the canton of Geneva during the same period.

Market control
Lake Geneva also attracted even in times of economic crisis. And it's not that small teams of high-performing hedge funds fleeing the UK Inland Revenue.
In February 2009, Japan Tobacco International, the third cigarette of the planet, has announced the creation of 400 new jobs over five years in Geneva. Many of its employees will move naturally to the east of the motorway.

The tension becomes so strong in these markets that the term housing bubble is no longer taboo. Thirty-three of the sixty banks surveyed last month by consultant Ernst & Young and confirm the existence of this risk. And 58% of establishments contacted share the view of regulators: the country's banks are showing increasing flexibility in the criteria related to the granting of mortgage loans (except-to-policy).

The threat of overheating worries the general secretary of the Asloca romand Carlo Sommaruga: "The free movement of citizens of the European Union is responsible for a sharp deterioration in the housing market for lower classes. Accompanying measures must be taken urgently to protect it. As well as those on the labor market. "

The donor side, expectations are lower. "The current situation is unhealthy and does not facilitate the work of the commissioners. We must therefore accelerate the construction of new homes, hopes the president of the Swiss real estate professionals, Hugh Hiltpold.

According to Geneva, the upward trend will persist, "Especially in the villas and buildings in PPE (condominiums).

Whether in Geneva or in the region between Nyon and Prangins. "Experts estimate that rents have also increased in Switzerland of at least 15% between 2000 and 2010 because of immigration.
It has a particularily high effect of the sale of house, but NOT to the same extent onto the renting-price of apartments
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

I had several Swiss friends who were looking for larger apartments in Geneva at the time of the arrival of Procter&Gamble. They found it near on impossible and watched prices go up very fast. Although all of them were Anglophiles - they were furious and said that PG had arrangements with Estate Agents, so better apartments were offered directly to them. Of course, since then this has spread all along the Lake, with some resentment and tension, sadly, but understandably. Two of them have moved away with their small children as they just could not find or afford, a suitable apartment to accommodate the kids.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:10
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
I wonder how the prices in Zurich changed because of the immigration...
At least not to the extent mentioned in Geneva. As Zurich has enough CH countryside around it. The areas around the lake have become very expensive by average in recent decades and immigration was one of the factors.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:10
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: basel
Posts: 203
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 93 Times in 65 Posts
daveAust has made some interesting contributions
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
It has a particularily high effect of the sale of house, but NOT to the same extent onto the renting-price of apartments
but that will follow.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

It certainly has in Geneva and all along the lake. Fortunately we bought just over the Jura, where prices are a fraction of t'other side.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:48
kevlegs's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Far far away
Posts: 2,178
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,324 Times in 700 Posts
kevlegs has a reputation beyond reputekevlegs has a reputation beyond reputekevlegs has a reputation beyond reputekevlegs has a reputation beyond reputekevlegs has a reputation beyond reputekevlegs has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

bugger
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:49
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,941
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 18,989 Times in 7,987 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

solution is simple: build more f'n houses!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13.01.2011, 23:50
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

The sad thing is that much of the problem was released on the folk by their own government. Fifteen years ago it was extremely difficult to find a 4 room appartment to rent in Geneva. Now the city has allowed more companies to arrive and the pressure just increases.

Zurich, Lucerne and Bern can expand in all directions, but Basel and Geneva are up against the border.

Bertrand, I think it is time to look for a nice job in Neuchâtel. Rents are low and the locals are pleasant. Swatch are racing ahead this year, can you work for them?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 14.01.2011, 00:00
flavio's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 769
Groaned at 69 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 615 Times in 346 Posts
flavio has an excellent reputationflavio has an excellent reputationflavio has an excellent reputationflavio has an excellent reputation
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
[I]Each percent higher in the number of arrivals in Switzerland cause up to 3.5% increase on the price of apartments.
These are the stats that I hate. Biased by design.
Immigration has been stronger in places where there are jobs and growth.
The cause-effect relation is flawed -or at least broken in pieces that don't show the full chain of events-.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank flavio for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 14.01.2011, 01:55
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post

Zurich, Lucerne and Bern can expand in all directions, but Basel and Geneva are up against the border.
Should moving to France across the border be considered an option? Can you reside in France while work in Geneva?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14.01.2011, 08:16
Bertrand - Geneva
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post

Bertrand, I think it is time to look for a nice job in Neuchâtel. Rents are low and the locals are pleasant. Swatch are racing ahead this year, can you work for them?
I was an accountant's assistant but I will need to be seriously trained again before I can work again (I used to help people with their fiscal stuff) or change my work domain. (that's what I thinking about)

Quote:
View Post
Should moving to France across the border be considered an option? Can you reside in France while work in Geneva?
Loads of people do it, but they are from the UE, I don't know about the "outside" people.

It has become so expensive and difficult to find a house/flat in Geneva that people go to Canton Vaud and nearby France but even here (in France) prices are going up quickly....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 14.01.2011, 08:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Saint Prex
Posts: 59
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 74 Times in 25 Posts
Ellen Wallace has no particular reputation at present
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

We all love to talk about how much we hate the housing shortages in Geneva, Lausanne and Zurich, not to mention the prices. But the Google translation of the article is mostly interesting for its limitations, because it skewers a lot of the information that's clear enough in French, starting with the title, which should be "COULD cause...". We decided not to run this story on GenevaLunch.com after puzzling over why the TDG ran it, mostly because the study came out in April 2010 and covers 2001-2006, but also because the study doesn't appear to say what the article does. Their objective was to show that prices increase even in periods of lower immigration, at a comparable rate.

THE BNS study is mainly about single-family homes, not apartments, and it's about home ownership, not rents, although a table at the end shows rents increased about in line with home price increases (slightly more). The SNB research is worth a read if you want to better understand the background to the Swiss housing market (link below). But keep in mind that in the past four years, since the study, available housing has shrunk much more, and that's where the problem lies: steady, predictable immigration without a comparable increase in housing.

We just ran an article about S&P's rating for Geneva; their study shows 1% immigration per year. According to the BNS study, this should have resulted (in Switzerland or anywhere else) in housing price increases of 2.7% a year, a bit more. S&P's notes that one of the Geneva (canton) gov't's 3 stated priorities is to build more housing by 2014. Doing it is another matter.

Here is the original paper from the SNB, published in English:
http://www.snb.ch/n/mmr/reference/wo...2010_16/source

The TDG usually runs a story along these lines this time of year, such as this one from 2009

http://www.tdg.ch/actu/economie/immi...eve-2009-12-11

or this one a year ago

http://www.tdg.ch/actu/economie/rent...mes-2010-01-03
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Ellen Wallace for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 14.01.2011, 08:58
Bertrand - Geneva
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Excellent. Thanks for the link.

It always the same when you translate an article with google or any other translating software : its not made by a human speaking fluently both languages.....

As for the article itself, its taken from the website, usually a short from the newspaper article which as been written by a journalist.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 14.01.2011, 08:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,661
Groaned at 23 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 3,311 Times in 1,742 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
solution is simple: build more f'n houses!

But where? There is no land around here.

In fact, in Geneva, they've specifically been targeting apt. buildings of medium height, seeing is the infrastructure will support one or two more floors to build above the existing roof. This has been done successfully a number of times already.

I guess the swiss could propose to buy parts of France, this could be aided by some local French separatists movements in the area at the moment.

I'm still waiting for house boats to become the in-thing, and legal, a la the Netherlands, and that could be a partial solution.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14.01.2011, 09:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,661
Groaned at 23 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 3,311 Times in 1,742 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Immigration dramatically raised the price of housing in Geneva

Quote:
View Post
Should moving to France across the border be considered an option? Can you reside in France while work in Geneva?
When the borders really opened up a few years ago a fairly large number of people took advantage of this, even a lot of swiss, not just expats. However, I know that a number of them has been gradually trickling back to Switzerland as it wasn't the paradise they were expecting. A number of reasons such as permit issues, citizenship issues, not liking living among the French, lack of infrastructure esp. transport, things not so much cheaper, higher taxes, long commutes, quality of life issues.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
housing




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Immigration Specialists in Geneva d25b2v Permits/visas/government 0 08.09.2009 13:04
Any Immigration specialist you recommend in Geneva ? vincentsa Permits/visas/government 1 28.08.2009 16:42
Housing in Geneva Nev Housing in general 1 05.03.2008 15:16
Housing between Geneva and Lausanne shankbs Housing in general 10 05.02.2008 11:35


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0