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  #81  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:21
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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"Base jumping is one of the world's most dangerous recreational activities and in 2002 it was estimated that there were 60 fatalities, which accounted for 1.7 per cent of participants."
So
Climbing Everest: 10% chance of death, even today.
Fighing for the UK Army in Afgahistahn: 14%
Living in Johannesburg: 0.66% per year change of getting murdered.

Cave Diving is considdered one of the most dangerous sports in the world as well, most probably killing as many or more than base jumpers. Remember that base jumping is illegal in so many places that there are most probably a lot more jumps than counted but each death is noted.

Statistically, you are more likley to die from your car or from cancer than from base jumping.
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  #82  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:24
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

They do when a women is involved. Alison Hargreaves, the Scottish climber who was killed descending after reaching the summit of K2 was lambasted by the press as being selfish & an unfit mother as she dared to climb while having 2 small children at home. Interestingly her son Tom, who was 6 when she died, is now training to climb K2 himself.

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I don't think I can ever recall someone describing a dead climber as "selfish" or having a "death wish", but soon as a base jumper hits the news, well, the gloves are off...!

Last edited by Lou; 28.01.2011 at 15:25. Reason: typo
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  #83  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:32
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

Just like all the sensation in the papers when the young Dutch girl wanted to sail around the world solo, which I am pretty sure is as dangerous as base jumping...hehe.
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  #84  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:33
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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are you seriously disputing the fact (or common perception) that BASE jumping is in a different league of risk as compared to hiking, skiing or climbing? The article linked by the OP says:

"Base jumping is one of the world's most dangerous recreational activities and in 2002 it was estimated that there were 60 fatalities, which accounted for 1.7 per cent of participants."

Are you saying this is not far higher than most other adventure sports?
Yes, totally, because one is not comparing like with like.

Compare statistics for "air sports" with those for "mountain sports", by all means.

Compare statistics for "climbing known-to-be-severe peaks" with those for "jumping off tall objects", by all means.

But dont mix the two!

Otherwise we could also say, rather sensationally,
"Climbing K2 is one of the world's most dangerous recreational activities which has resulted in the deaths of more than 20% of participants."


and I don't think we've even mentioned Annapurna yet!
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  #85  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:36
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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This is really insane
Yes, the whole paranoia about second hand smoke IS insane!

Tom
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  #86  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:38
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

Thanks guys, Weejem, Collin et al, I enjoy intelligent debate/rebuttals without personal barbs...
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  #87  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:39
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

Perspective check -
  • risk of death whilst BASE jumping... 1 in 2,000 jumps (approx)
  • risk of maternal death in pregnancy (UK)... 1 in 8,000 pregnancies (approx)

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  #88  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:42
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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Perspective check -
  • risk of death whilst BASE jumping... 1 in 2,000 jumps (approx)
  • risk of maternal death in pregnancy (UK)... 1 in 8,000 pregnancies (approx)
What is the outcome of a successful pregnancy? And you are comparing that with the outcome of a successful Base jump? I am not saying such comparison is unreasonable, just perspective check

What will happen if no one went for pregnancy vs if no one base jumped?
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  #89  
Old 28.01.2011, 15:51
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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What is the outcome of a successful pregnancy?
Of course I am going to be crucified for this one as normal.

Outcome of successful pregnancy: Resources diminished for the rest of mankind.
Outcome of successful base-jump: Some adrenalin junky gets his fix and does not go mental and shoot somebody.

Okay, so about the same then.

Other scenario:
Reduced amount of pregnancies: Human population can settle back to a reasonable level resulting in much less murder and fewer reporters with nothing better to do than report base-jumping fatalities.
Reduced amount of base-jumping: Reporters are out of work and life is less fun for people.

I don't think we need to examine no pregnancy or no base-jumping because they are both just as stupid as each other as scenarios.
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  #90  
Old 28.01.2011, 16:58
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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We need a referendum ,outlawing ,every kind of jumping
'specially queue jumping.
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  #91  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:04
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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Outcome of successful pregnancy: Resources diminished for the rest of mankind.
Outcome of successful base-jump: Some adrenalin junky gets his fix and does not go mental and shoot somebody.
Outcome of unsuccessful base-jump: some adrenalin junky got his final fix and we gained some resources for mankind...
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  #92  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:07
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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Outcome of unsuccessful base-jump: some adrenalin junky got his final fix and we gained some resources for mankind...
Fair enough, more than a good reason to fully support and possibly sponsor some more base-jumping. Perhaps we could get catholic priests, lawyers, terrorists and politicians into the sport?
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  #93  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:14
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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What will happen if no one went for pregnancy vs if no one base jumped?
Dunno, you'll have tell me on this one... What would a world of only hypothetical situations be like?


For the world I do inhabit, I find it noteworthy that what someone does to put themselves at increased risk seems to attract sigfificantly more attention and criiticism than the level of risk to which they are actually exposed.


And, again, for comparison, the historical level of maternal death is estimated at around 1 in 100 pregnancies.

"Shall we start a family, darling?"
"No, I love you too much and don't want to lose you - let's go base jumping, it's ten times safer."
It sounds bizarre, but there it is - reality can be very counter to the perception.

Does anyone here ever buy a lottery ticket? Do you expect to win the jackpot? No, come on now, tell the truth? Ah, what's that - "Yes, I know that the odds are 1 in 14billion", was that? Then why would anyone ever buy a lottery ticket?

And yet, and yet....
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  #94  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:20
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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Here's one:

Alison Hargreaves was one such lady. She dies on K2 and left behind a husband and two young children.
Here's an "Insider story" about this lady, her family, and her climbing. You don't have to agree or disagree with the author, just read it as food for thought.
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  #95  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:32
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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"Shall we start a family, darling?"
"No, I love you too much and don't want to lose you - let's go base jumping, it's ten times safer."
Smashing! I love it and the next time I have to have a debate about kids....
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  #96  
Old 28.01.2011, 17:48
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

And since today's the 25th anniversary of the Challenger Shuttle Disaster...
  • Number of launches: 132
  • Number of catastrophic losses: 2

  • Probability of being on a shuttle and not coming home: 1 in 60


I mean, noone in their right mind would gamble with their life like that?


Yet, I would I'd be up there faster than a very fast thing fired from a thing to make very fast things very, very much faster


Yet, I'd never, ever consider base jumping
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  #97  
Old 28.01.2011, 18:03
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

to be fair,,,,,,,,,,
people die doing what they love, be it base jumping, skiing, space travel, monopoly or chess.

If you dont 'kill' anyone else in the pursuit of your happiness,,,crack on, and have fun.

Life is short enough as it is, enjoy the ride doing what you like.
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  #98  
Old 30.01.2011, 22:40
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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They do when a women is involved. Alison Hargreaves, the Scottish climber who was killed descending after reaching the summit of K2 was lambasted by the press as being selfish & an unfit mother as she dared to climb while having 2 small children at home. Interestingly her son Tom, who was 6 when she died, is now training to climb K2 himself.
Ironically, it seems Alison was a very devoted mother; at the time of her K2 attempt, "extreme feats was the only way to feed her family. It was also, she thought, the only way to escape her marriage to Jim Ballard." So basically, she sacrificed her life for her children.

Toms's story can draw vastly different reactions from people; some would say, he is milking life for all it is worth and pioneering big-time like no one has done before (climbing K2 in perfect summer conditions in a group of experienced mountaineers is extremely hazardous, and this guy wants to do it solo, in winter, with no oxygen, at age 21, with no experience in the Himalayas; as brave as brave gets).

Some would feel sad that if he had had a normal childhood he may not be dreaming such foolhardy things (foolhardy as described by veteran mountaineers).

Some would feel angry at the father for his decision to allow his 21-year old son to undertake a project that would have maybe less than 1 in 2 chances of safe return. I personally felt disappointed that he was comparing his son with the fine young men who join the marines.


The anti-climax

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Old 30.01.2011, 23:07
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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I think 'Real' jousting back in the dark ages must have been hard core!

These battle reinactors always make me laugh, especially the Roman Army enthusiasts, They are all beardy over weight 56 year olds in poor physical shape, and they all want to be the highest rank possible!
I believe you may have mixed up Roman and Viking there. Our group tend to be rather slimmer (no-one wants to see fat gladiators and buggered if we're lifting the tubby ones out on stretchers from the arena) and mostly not that old. I also don't have a beard.
Now that I've proved I have no sense of humour, you can go chew on a ballista.

Edit: regarding Paul Allen's death, let's just say many corners were cut and mistakes made, few of which were by the reenactors. Many people are deeply unimpressed with the way a certain TV company are trying to shift the blame off themselves.
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Old 30.01.2011, 23:13
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Re: British base jumper dies in Switzerland

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Many people are deeply unimpressed with the way a certain TV company are trying to shift the blame off themselves.
What, the media are trying to avoid taking accountability? What? I would say call the press, but.......
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