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  #61  
Old 31.01.2011, 00:44
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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You might have to click on the picture to get the full effect...
Alternatively we might need a real microwave and the real idiot to get the desired effect, but yes, thanks that made my evening...lol.
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  #62  
Old 31.01.2011, 01:16
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Everybody knows that Americans are all gun-totin', bible-bashin', trailer-dwellin', wad-spittin', pick-up-truck-drivin', republican-votin' rednecks.
That's not true, I was registered non-partisan..!
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  #63  
Old 15.02.2011, 20:53
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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The vikings? HUH? Since were the vikings colonialists? Either they went to loot and plunder....or they were trading gods...but colonialists...
They colonised parts of England, Scotland, Ireland. They settled Iceland and were in Greenland and on the coast of North America. At one time their king was also king of England (and gave us the Rule Britannia by attempting to rule some waves). But colonialists? Oh no.
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  #64  
Old 16.02.2011, 22:34
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

In fact the welsh got together with the vikings to stuff the english (anglo-saxons then). Could have done with them recently at the millenium stadium though :-(
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  #65  
Old 17.02.2011, 00:46
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Okay, so today again I was accosted by somebody on the Internet (a UK politician this time) who told me that I should be ashamed for living in a country that built its financial success on the blood of oppressed people.

I am not sure about the exact connotation, you know, Nazi gold, Sudanese Warlord bank accounts, etc.

I am pretty sure that you have heard them all by this stage.

How do you all deal with this sort of thing?
What is your response?
Do you defend the country or just grin and pat your wallet?
Do you think it is true or false?

Okay, let the fun begin!
Sure, your post is aged, BUT nevertheless, I am amazed and puzzled about a UK politician speaking about "that built its success on the blood of the oppressed people" without realising that this does not really go with Switzerland but most of all with HIS OWN country, whose overall economic success was based on the on the blood of oppressed people, on the economic substance pressed out of the oppressed people, on the produce done by half the world under the oppression of the British Empire of which the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the legal successor. As a consequence of his words, HE is to get out of the country where he resides !
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  #66  
Old 17.02.2011, 11:39
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Sure, your post is aged, BUT nevertheless, I am amazed and puzzled about a UK politician speaking about "that built its success on the blood of the oppressed people" without realising that this does not really go with Switzerland but most of all with HIS OWN country, whose overall economic success was based on the on the blood of oppressed people, on the economic substance pressed out of the oppressed people, on the produce done by half the world under the oppression of the British Empire of which the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the legal successor. As a consequence of his words, HE is to get out of the country where he resides !
Let's restore the ancient kingdom of Wessex and blame all the colonialism etc on the others.
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  #67  
Old 17.02.2011, 12:12
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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In fact the welsh got together with the vikings to stuff the english (anglo-saxons then). Could have done with them recently at the millenium stadium though :-(
An interesting point raised here. Since the Normans invaded in the 11th century aren't all the English really French? My dark ages political geography isn't so good though and so maybe it's more Gaul or Holy Roman Empire?

Anyway, lay off the English, I think I've proven that they don't exist!

DP
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  #68  
Old 17.02.2011, 12:17
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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An interesting point raised here. Since the Normans invaded in the 11th century aren't all the English really French? My dark ages political geography isn't so good though and so maybe it's more Gaul or Holy Roman Empire?

Anyway, lay off the English, I think I've proven that they don't exist!

DP
The Normans weren't really French. As their name suggests, they were the descendants of Vikings and so they were ethnically closely related to the Vikings who had settled in England and even had family ties (hence William's claim to the English throne, which wasn't entirely unsubstantiated). By living in France, however, they had absorbed French culture and lanuage. So the Norman Invasion was not so much an invasion by French people as an invasion by French culture.

It is believed, by the way, that at the time of the Norman invasion, Celtic languages were still spoken in many parts of England. They definitely were in the Lake District and that general area and they probably were in many other parts of the North-west and West. So in these places Middle English would have displaced Celtic directly without people having spoken Anglo Saxon in the interim.

Last edited by amogles; 17.02.2011 at 12:31.
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  #69  
Old 17.02.2011, 12:27
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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The Normans weren't really French. As their name suggests, they were the descendants of Vikings who had settled in France and gradually absorbed French culture. So the Norman Invasion was not so much an invasion by French people but an invasion of French culture.
Well "French culture" is pretty good with a bow and arrow, ask Harold! As I said my political geography (and history) may not be up to much but there were definitely some people involved in the invasion.

Does this also mean that the Normans didn't really exist either and were just Vikings? We could keep going and see who was the first tribe or whatever and just blame them for everything.
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  #70  
Old 17.02.2011, 12:28
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

It was Asterix!
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  #71  
Old 17.02.2011, 12:34
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Well "French culture" is pretty good with a bow and arrow, ask Harold! As I said my political geography (and history) may not be up to much but there were definitely some people involved in the invasion.

Does this also mean that the Normans didn't really exist either and were just Vikings? We could keep going and see who was the first tribe or whatever and just blame them for everything.
It depends what you mean by "didn't exist", but it would be fair to say that the Norman invasion was the last and final in a long history of Viking attacks.
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  #72  
Old 17.02.2011, 13:30
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Okay, so today again I was accosted by somebody on the Internet (a UK politician this time) who told me that I should be ashamed for living in a country that built its financial success on the blood of oppressed people.

HAHAHAHA! how to talk about UK/Empire and not touching the words colonies, (active) oppressing, occupation, theft, wars, hard slave labour in time of industrialisation etc.? GTFO!
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  #73  
Old 17.02.2011, 13:46
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Brave talking from the American Corner
Land stolen from the Natives
Slavery - and States who wanted to carry on the tradition well after Britain abandoned it!
Grenada
Vietnam
Iraq ... twice,
Nicaragua / Central America in general ....
Lets discuss waterboarding, rendition, Dick Cheney's bank account
well, these things are true as well. Although lets not forget the First Gulf War was legitimized through the UN, even bringing Arab forces and even the French along.

interesting you mentioned grenada, yet left out all the other far worse things the US did in the latter half of the 19th and early 20th centuries in LatAm and the carribean. but i digress..

Are the statemetns any less true though? Yes, youve pointed out american colonialism, but doing so hardly invalidates the statement the previous poster made.

British colonialism lasted centuries, American hardly even 1.

To the OP, i think the subsequent posts rebutted pretty well the cliche that was thrown around. The success of the Swiss in the post war era is due to the Swiss themselves, not the Nazis or warlords stashing money or whatever.

They have built solid institutions with little corruption and created stability which has become a haven for investors the world over. This isnt due to assets from auschwitz victims. Besides, the swiss cashed those assets out, twice. Once in the 50s, and again in the 90s because of the pressure started by the US led by then NY senator alfonse damato.

if you want to talk about historical events which contributed to their wealth, having common borders and languages with the two largest economies in w. europe, staying out of wars, and having infrastructure and markets left intact after 1945 (who do you think underwrote much of the Marshall Plan's reconstruction) was certainly more important than some stashed gold and jewels seized during the war.

That a country with a population smaller than that of London can be a world player on the scale that CH is, with a currency and capital markets which are said in the same breath as those of countries/regions vastly larger in population and resources is surely not by chance.
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  #74  
Old 17.02.2011, 14:24
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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interesting you mentioned grenada, yet left out all the other far worse things the US did in the latter half of the 19th and early 20th centuries in LatAm and the carribean.
That's because, to the British, Grenada was personal...
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  #75  
Old 17.02.2011, 14:39
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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Of course you can!

Everybody knows that Americans are all gun-totin', bible-bashin', trailer-dwellin', wad-spittin', pick-up-truck-drivin', republican-votin' rednecks.

Especially the ones in Georgia. They're the worst!

I seen it on the telly.
For your owen sake DB. I hope you will never meet my daughter in law ,she is from Georgia .Lovely girl BTW
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  #76  
Old 17.02.2011, 14:44
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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...I am amazed and puzzled about a UK politician speaking about "that built its success on the blood of the oppressed people" without realising that this does not really go with Switzerland but most of all with HIS OWN country...


Wolly - how much time do you spend on the EF?

Uhuh... and you're still amazed?


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  #77  
Old 17.02.2011, 14:50
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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As much as I wish it was an MP or a really public figure it was just some twit from Hampshire who is a friend of a friend on Facebook.

I responded with two points:
1. One that was raised here most that was the UK has a much worse track record and current behaviour.
2. Just because of Stuart Eizenstat's report and following book that have both been refuted by much more respected and demonstrable witnesses and history itself, does not mean that Switzerland's success is built on war profiteering. In fact the Swiss economy earns only about 10% of its income from Banking, less than the UK.

I find it ironic that during these debates after people had finished blaming all of the active partners in the conflicts around the world to be able to sustain their vitriol and anger, they find themselves having to turn their indignation on the neutral nations to justify their outrage.

One can't really afford to apologise I feel but rather have to either just end up calling the persona an idiot or simply point out the truth. The insulting option for me ends up being the more satisfying one in most cases because these types of people are seldom susceptible to the truth.


Anyway, thanks all for your contributions to this whole discussion. One of the large factors that made me pick up and move to Switzerland was the politics of neutrality and the success of the country so I feel very strongly about the whole issue as it does reflect on me personally.
"Thanks" Sorry no buttons
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  #78  
Old 17.02.2011, 18:39
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

(yawn) And all of this effects the price of my beer how?
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Old 17.02.2011, 21:39
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

Politicias are nothing just lawyers of the devil, where the devil is their party, their group.

A citizen that lives in a country with dark past bare the mistakes of the past? Of course not. Is the young 5 years old boy from Russia playing in the sand guilty because Stalin killed hundred of millions of innocent people?
Is the 4 month old girl from Germany guilty because Hitler produced genocide?

The politician can be asked how he can stand the situation in which England lay...selling guns to dictatorships in Africa, invading nations such as Irak and Afganistan, and maintaining war and state of insecurity in this regions ?(can someone tell me how talibans still resist in Afaganistan, when Us-britih coalition have high tech such as night surveillance, satellites - how munition and guns come in to afaganistan ? )

If the politician still represent people and is in duty...I am afraid the politician is guilty as long he haven't make a position against aforementioned murders, and others ( we need two books to list all the crimes against humanity that UK have done it in modern times).

BTW of crimes against humanity....Bombarding civil population in Germany during WWII is not crime, while bombarding civil population in UK during WWII it is? What about modern times ....bombarding civil population in Iraq, and Afghanistan? Have he condemned all crimes against humanity, including the actions of UK?

Do not misunderstand my position, UK government is one thing and peoples from UK is other thing, and this rule goes along with all nations and governments. Peoples want to live a decent life, to have kids, to enjoy life...politicians from all over the world just want to gain power by sending message of hatred against something. ( democrats against republicans, liberalls against concervators, Uk against Argentina, etc etc )
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Old 21.02.2011, 08:38
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Re: Defending the country built on the blood of the oppressed!

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That's the point. The guy is from UK and get all emotional because the OP lives in country ''build on the blood of the oppressed''.

Is UK never been involve in anything or got something from the ''blood of the oppressed''? Like any countries, the UK history has some bad stuff too.

Th UK got plenty from the opressed people in their African Colonies. What is he talking about, the British were the worst.......Gambia, Ghana, Nigeria, Southern Cameroon, Sierra Leone, Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, South Africa, Northern Rhodesia (Zambia), Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), Nyasaland (Malawi), Lesotho, Botswana, Swaziland and then there was India. They raped them and then threw them to the wolves. Britian is built upon their opression and blood of former colonies. He should hang his head in shame and point no fingers!

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