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  #41  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:21
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Hmmm. Wow...Thanks. It does explain a bunch of things here. Still makes me wonder why would this issue wait so long, when in a lot of similar culture countries it was hot cca 50yrs before CH.
As for many issues, there is a big town/country difference, as well as Romand/Swiss German. Vaud voted for women's vote in 59, and Geneva and Neuchatel in 60. Not far behind France in 44, and Italy in 45. The first Swiss German Kanton to do the same was Basel Stadt in 66. Perhaps this cleavage is the reason I so often do not recognize the 'stereotypes' which pop up frequently here - which are frequently totally alien to me as Swiss born and bred here (in the Neuchatel Jura).
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  #42  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:23
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Perhaps this cleavage is the reason I so often do not recognize the 'stereotypes' which pop up frequently here
Indeed. A good cleavage can distract anyone.
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  #43  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:29
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Wasn't it the women in the "medieval cantons" who swung the vote in the recent minaret initiative?
Ok, my blonde moment: which direction did they swing it?
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  #44  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:30
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Ok, my blonde moment: which direction did they swing it?
In favour of the ban.
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  #45  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:36
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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In favour of the ban.
Ah. But what were they thinking? I feel bad for manipulated people. At least they voted, though. Civic duty. Maybe now somebody will actually take the time and resources and invests in spreading the word, not fear, in those areas...It's not about just giving people power to influence, it is about giving them info so they can make educated and informed decisions. It wouldn't be any worse if they were not allowed to vote. It's like fearing women being in powerful positions so we just don't simply let them have any.
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  #46  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:38
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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I feel bad for manipulated people.
Who says they're manipulated?

They're very conservative women living in very conservative communities.

One might argue, indeed, that it would have been better for the rest of Switzerland had not these "medieval" cantons been compelled to allow their women to vote.
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Old 07.02.2011, 21:52
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Ah. But what were they thinking? I feel bad for manipulated people. At least they voted, though. Civic duty. Maybe now somebody will actually take the time and resources and invests in spreading the word, not fear, in those areas...It's not about just giving people power to influence, it is about giving them info so they can make educated and informed decisions. It wouldn't be any worse if they were not allowed to vote. It's like fearing women being in powerful positions so we just don't simply let them have any.
Leftist Feminists claimed that Minarets were symbols of oppression of women, and warned that more Minarets were damaging women's rights. THEY finally, in a kind of unholy alliance with the SVP, brought about that majority.
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  #48  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:55
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

It does seem that many women still (and NOT just in CH) vote as instructed by the men in their lives. In the UK we lived for some time in a community where women were like Stepford wives, and seemed to have no opinion of their own on anything at all. 'What do you think about xyz Liz' 'Oh David thinks that ....' 'Ah, interesting, but what about you Liz?' 'Well, I don't know, but David says ...'. quietly 'but you, PERSONALLY LIZ, what do YOU think?'
'Me? Oh I don't know, I never think about these things'. And so on, day after day. In the end, we moved, and I went back to studying before I was 'cloned' too. Pheeew.
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  #49  
Old 07.02.2011, 21:56
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Who says they're manipulated?

They're very conservative women living in very conservative communities.

One might argue, indeed, that it would have been better for the rest of Switzerland had not these "medieval" cantons been compelled to allow their women to vote.
Baaah. Devil's advocate. I think they were manipulated, into ultra traditional mindset, since they were zero years old. Since I completely see the desire of having their little community as it has been for centuries, so if the decision was on community level, but federal? I think feeding people fears is manipulation, and abusing their somewhat simplistic and innocent reasoning. There is no real threat and danger in letting other cultures participate in life here, since, they have been here anyways, for decades, contributed, filled in jobs the local society didn't have their own people for, well behaved, integrated. On face to face level, these traditional. people are very accepting. The campaign was misleading and spreading unpleasant and dangerous stereotypes. It's hard to see things from the kitchen and from changing tables, waiting in lines in Coop and chasing down the sales. I am stereotyping, of course. But I am glad some socio-eco-geographical facts are very educational. I am glad they voted.
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  #50  
Old 07.02.2011, 22:02
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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It does seem that many women still (and NOT just in CH) vote as instructed by the men in their lives. In the UK we lived for some time in a community where women were like Stepford wives, and seemed to have no opinion of their own on anything at all. 'What do you think about xyz Liz' 'Oh David thinks that ....' 'Ah, interesting, but what about you Liz?' 'Well, I don't know, but David says ...'. quietly 'but you, PERSONALLY LIZ, what do YOU think?'
'Me? Oh I don't know, I never think about these things'. And so on, day after day. In the end, we moved, and I went back to studying before I was 'cloned' too. Pheeew.
Yeah. But do people realize how difficult it can be to live with a wench that does not only accept somebody else's opinions and decides to applaud others on her own terms and after she has thought about it? Can be very irritating. What do we call her....uhm, opinionated, difficult, obstinate, stubborn, whatever.

It is so PC to support equality, but I wonder if some people just want to go with the flow but deep down find it actually annoying. One is supposed to be a feminist these days, right? It's all this power to the chicks talk, but at the end of the day, I am not sure if we are honestly ready for this. Here, a difficult to say, really. Some stuff I saw in media was...weird, to be nice.
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  #51  
Old 07.02.2011, 22:08
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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It is so PC to support equality, but I wonder if some people just want to go with the flow but deep down find it actually annoying.
You know, some countries are so politically correct, they would even allow a woman to become Prime Minister?

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  #52  
Old 07.02.2011, 22:13
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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It does seem that many women still (and NOT just in CH) vote as instructed by the men in their lives. In the UK we lived for some time in a community where women were like Stepford wives, and seemed to have no opinion of their own on anything at all. 'What do you think about xyz Liz' 'Oh David thinks that ....' 'Ah, interesting, but what about you Liz?' 'Well, I don't know, but David says ...'. quietly 'but you, PERSONALLY LIZ, what do YOU think?'
'Me? Oh I don't know, I never think about these things'. And so on, day after day. In the end, we moved, and I went back to studying before I was 'cloned' too. Pheeew.
I for many years got the voting sheets of my mother, already signed to fill them out and so had TWO votes in effect. When I had my lodgings in Adliswil I voted in both the City of Zurich and the City of Adliswil
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  #53  
Old 07.02.2011, 22:15
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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You know, some countries are so politically correct, they would even allow a woman to become Prime Minister?

Really ?? And I always thought the lady was so politically correct that she allowed people to vote for her
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  #54  
Old 07.02.2011, 22:17
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Shame on you Woolie! the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

I am very proud to say that my mum would have never ever ever agreed to that- but she was not your 'average' Swiss mum.
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Old 07.02.2011, 22:32
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Did anyone here read the article about the anti-feminist meeting? http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=28666110

Didn't we evolve as a species??
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  #56  
Old 07.02.2011, 23:32
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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You know, some countries are so politically correct, they would even allow a woman to become Prime Minister?

And what good did it do.... It was pretty revolutionary, wasn't it, actually. I have never thought about how enlightened your culture was. Is, I mean.


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I for many years got the voting sheets of my mother, already signed to fill them out and so had TWO votes in effect. When I had my lodgings in Adliswil I voted in both the City of Zurich and the City of Adliswil
See, this I don't get. I do also ask my family to fill me up on news and background and possible consequences of different choices and suggestions, but that's coz I don't live there anymore and I think it is fair if I vote to make to their life better. But completely leaving my voice out of it? So women didn't trust themselves, or weren't informed, or the news/politics/debates were done without them being present? That's why they would let others decide?
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  #57  
Old 07.02.2011, 23:36
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

But who is to blame 'the most'? The one who allows their vote to be used by somebody else- or the one who fraudulently uses somebody else's vote?
This has been a real problem in some Asian communities in the UK.
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Old 07.02.2011, 23:51
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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Shame on you Woolie! the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

I am very proud to say that my mum would have never ever ever agreed to that- but she was not your 'average' Swiss mum.
My mother did not just agree, she told me to take care of the whole stuff
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  #59  
Old 07.02.2011, 23:51
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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here in Switzerland when you critic something people get upset and take it personal.
If you want the Swiss to be critical about something Swiss, just compliment them on it and then you will have a real fight on your hands...I have found them to be fairly self-critical at this stage although it is early days.
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in a kind of unholy alliance with the SVP
What would weejeem's avatar say?
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Old 07.02.2011, 23:58
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Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

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And what good did it do.... It was pretty revolutionary, wasn't it, actually. I have never thought about how enlightened your culture was. Is, I mean.




See, this I don't get. I do also ask my family to fill me up on news and background and possible consequences of different choices and suggestions, but that's coz I don't live there anymore and I think it is fair if I vote to make to their life better. But completely leaving my voice out of it? So women didn't trust themselves, or weren't informed, or the news/politics/debates were done without them being present? That's why they would let others decide?
My mother had quite clear opinions and was informed about things. At times I voted differently with HER stuff and mine as I knew exactly what her opinion was about a particular affair and filled in HER paper with her choice and my own with my choice. But to make choices between 22 party lists and possibly even mix them was not her business.

And it can also be the other way round. My brother was not interested in the voting business and so, during his life with his second wife, until his death, he always gave the signatures and left the actual filling out of the sheets to my sister-in-law who by that for many years in practice had two votes.
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