Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12.06.2011, 17:15
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,322
Groaned at 69 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 7,190 Times in 2,662 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Do you think they really realized what they were saying ?
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12.06.2011, 17:17
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
Women have other things to do than to make politics, much more important ...

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #103  
Old 12.06.2011, 17:20
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,273
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,284 Times in 2,568 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Do you think they really realized what they were saying ?
Trying to give him the benefit of any doubt, he may have been saying that they were attempting to keep the traditional family unit.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12.06.2011, 17:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
Women have other things to do than to make politics, much more important ...
Considering most of the political debate I read about these days is basically a pissing contest which gains very little ground either way, I would say the statement is quite possibly not far from the truth (at least for me)...
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12.06.2011, 17:34
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Hm, that quote is pretty pathetic, actually. Letting women vote has nothing to do with how little time or interest they might want to or be able to take in political affairs. For some, it is important and a priority, so let's give them the legislature allowing them. Does not mean they slack on the family life part.

I am glad to have grown up with a female role model who wasn't able to vote in democratic elections for decades, and then when freedom happened, she became one to vote for and represented our community/region/mindset on a gov level, in a very dignified and humane way. It's not only about being able to vote, but also letting women participate in political life of the country.

I do not feel at home until I am able to vote and feel like I can make a difference, be it in the actual voting bit, or getting ready for it, getting informed, being able to help out and participate in community life. I appreciate the fact that some communities in our region actually let foreigners vote on local matters, very enlightened.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.06.2011 at 21:45.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #106  
Old 13.06.2011, 08:53
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,322
Groaned at 69 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 7,190 Times in 2,662 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Superwoman video
Thanks MC. So true, we really are.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 13.06.2011, 15:54
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I just realised that when I was in Appenzell Innerhoden recently it was the 20th anniversary of the first time that women were allowed to vote.

I came across this interesting audio archive from 1990 with a local man discussing the issue:
He of course was right in criticizing the point that his folks were not told much earlier about the matter with the federal constitution. But he was wrong by assuming that average CH people paid much attention to what they up in Appenzell did. In fact, if somebody mentioned A.I., the response was "ahhhh , natüüürlich, diä Appezäller ....."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #108  
Old 13.06.2011, 19:25
Geox's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich (Oberland)
Posts: 18
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Geox has no particular reputation at present
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
40 years ago this week, Swiss men voted in favour of women's suffrage...

There are two great online galleries of campaigns for/against women's right to vote in Switzerland on Swissinfo :
old campaign posters and general campaign photos
As a result of the federal structure in Switzerland, which gave cantons and local councils substantial independence, women were permitted to vote as early as 1957 in local councils in Wallis and Basel-Stadt. Universal suffrage was introduced in a few cantons beginning in 1959 such as in the cantons of Vaud and Neuchatel, followed by Geneva in 1960.

Much can be said about the skewed revision of electoral laws in the country, some of it may well be a result of a closed and conservative society that was geographically secluded and not subject to many of the upheavals that Europe had to go through. The French occupation played an important role in bringing in substantial changes to Swiss society. There may well be many studies on the reasoning behind such behaviour, which try to explain having the men out on the front and the womenfolk sewing socks to keep their (menfolk's) feet warm during the Second World War.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 13.06.2011, 22:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
As a result of the federal structure in Switzerland, which gave cantons and local councils substantial independence, women were permitted to vote as early as 1957 in local councils in Wallis and Basel-Stadt. Universal suffrage was introduced in a few cantons beginning in 1959 such as in the cantons of Vaud and Neuchatel, followed by Geneva in 1960.

Much can be said about the skewed revision of electoral laws in the country, some of it may well be a result of a closed and conservative society that was geographically secluded and not subject to many of the upheavals that Europe had to go through. The French occupation played an important role in bringing in substantial changes to Swiss society. There may well be many studies on the reasoning behind such behaviour, which try to explain having the men out on the front and the womenfolk sewing socks to keep their (menfolk's) feet warm during the Second World War.
WWII had an enormous influence onto the matter, as due to the mobilisation (General-Mobilmachung) the women in many places had to fill the places left by the man in "military age". And there of course simply was a change of generations taking place which lead to the inevitable modernisation.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 14.06.2011, 13:48
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,185
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,469 Times in 1,088 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Today women are striking with the idea of getting equal pay for men and women for the same jobs.
News article in German here.

As long as they have these nutty school hours, with minimal (and expensive) out of school care options, anyone who ends up breeding, will not get equal pay.

I am very interested in how Pascale Bruderer's career will be developing in the near and distant future.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 14.06.2011, 14:37
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Today women are striking with the idea of getting equal pay for men and women for the same jobs.
News article in German here.

As long as they have these nutty school hours, with minimal (and expensive) out of school care options, anyone who ends up breeding, will not get equal pay.

I am very interested in how Pascale Bruderer's career will be developing in the near and distant future.
Mrs Bruderer is self-employed (has a consultancy together with her sister, is president of the anti-cancer society, and the parliamentary job is not a full time affair, so that I expect her to find solutions.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 14.06.2011, 14:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Nutty school hours are... nutty! But there is nothing to say that the mum has to stay behind to deal with this. That choice is yours- and little to do with Switzerland, really. If women accept this as the default system, there is little hope. I totally agree btw that these timings are mad (not the case in my area though). But there is a way around any problem- for instance finding somebody to look after your child/dren during the lunch hour and feed them. Get a group on a rosta to do this, etc, etc. Same for Wednesday pm. Why let the system beat you? Where there is a will, there is a way, even in CH, honest. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #113  
Old 02.07.2011, 20:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 88
Groaned at 12 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts
maxvoegtli has earned some respectmaxvoegtli has earned some respect
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

40 years on and yet Womens rights in switzerland is still no where near many people would like it to be
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 03.07.2011, 01:47
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
40 years on and yet Womens rights in switzerland is still no where near many people would like it to be

- women having a majority in the Federal government
- a woman being CH Federal President 2011
- women holding vital positions in Cantonal + Municipal governments
- women holding highest offices in Cantonal+Municipal parliaments
- women in managerial positions throughout the economy
- women practicall deciding votes and elections
- women not having to do military service
-
so what ?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #115  
Old 03.07.2011, 07:54
the_clangers's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO was St Prex, VD
Posts: 1,999
Groaned at 17 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,185 Times in 697 Posts
the_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond reputethe_clangers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Fixed that for you in the spirit of gender equality
Yep.

Dealt with this whilst I lived in CH. My wife is the primary income and I could not work or the childcare costs would probably have been more than my income due to the requirement that they be based on the combined household income. Pays to stay home and do nothing.

Also, women still basically can't easily get control of their bank accounts. For example, my wife was the only reason that we could get a CS account as she holds an EU passport and I hold one from the US. Yet all correspondence was addressed to me even though she was the primary applicant and all of the money came from her work direct deposit and I wasn't even allowed to have an account on my own. I was allowed to do anything to the accounts and to her cards and debit limits simply for the asking. It was convenient for us in that case but damned peculiar, considering all of the privacy issues. Especially considering we don't have the same last name.

Women aren't quite officially real people in the CH, yet. Regardless of what the law says, until the practical day to day realities are changed, nothing has really changed.

Having said that, there are, quite a few, worse places to be double X chromosomed.


Quote:
View Post
- women having a majority in the Federal government
- a woman being CH Federal President 2011
- women holding vital positions in Cantonal + Municipal governments
- women holding highest offices in Cantonal+Municipal parliaments
- women in managerial positions throughout the economy
- women practicall deciding votes and elections
- women not having to do military service
-
so what ?
That last one isn't actually a good thing. It means they aren't good enough.
Practically is the same as saying not really. You do the deciding or you don't. I'd say that mostly, they still don't.
The rest are mostly minor details. Since women constitute slightly more than 50% of the general population they aren't really represented if they are only occasionally holding various positions and offices of real power through out officialdom, government and business. Yeah, especially that last one.
__________________
Many men, of course, became extremely rich, but this was perfectly natural, and nothing to be ashamed of, because no one was really poor -- at least no one worth speaking of. - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank the_clangers for this useful post:
  #116  
Old 03.07.2011, 08:48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 251
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 304 Times in 122 Posts
TheCatintheHat has an excellent reputationTheCatintheHat has an excellent reputationTheCatintheHat has an excellent reputationTheCatintheHat has an excellent reputation
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

I've also experienced the bizarre bank account thing.
I have to go through a little round of verification every single time I call on our joint accounts.
He called about my private account once, announced himself as my husband, and they immediately provided him with everything he needed to know. Privacy my **s.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TheCatintheHat for this useful post:
  #117  
Old 03.07.2011, 08:57
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Women aren't quite officially real people in the CH, yet.
You can beat it, as time goes, slowly and by networking, steadily ace performing, accepting you will be a lot more inspected and tested, one has to keep more than professional attitude, and then you slowly become a bit more real...You will still get bewildered looks, but never cared for those. It's important to not let things get under your skin, even if one comes from a culture with "women can always achieve more than men if they feel like it" kind of attitude ..It's not easy though, and on top of that, not all female careers are created equal, so the equality is happening a lot faster in fields that bring instant cash to gov and business, than in fields that are not as highly rewarded or in fields that need long investments in edu before the career is bring some cash into the communal budgets..

Quote:
The rest are mostly minor details.
Cosmetics. I agree. The few numbers to keep the stats on somewhat generally ok level is not going to really change how difficult the journey can be for girls in a regular, small place, with education everybody was telling them it would suffice, with attitude of overexerting oneself and demanding more from the system will lead to certain death.

That said, tings are slowly getting on the right track. And, in a system with so many resources, I do trust that when it gets right, it might actually be more right than anywhere else, if we allow inspiration from outside and learning from their mistakes.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 03.07.2011, 13:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Yep.

Dealt with this whilst I lived in CH. My wife is the primary income and I could not work or the childcare costs would probably have been more than my income due to the requirement that they be based on the combined household income. Pays to stay home and do nothing.

Also, women still basically can't easily get control of their bank accounts. For example, my wife was the only reason that we could get a CS account as she holds an EU passport and I hold one from the US. Yet all correspondence was addressed to me even though she was the primary applicant and all of the money came from her work direct deposit and I wasn't even allowed to have an account on my own. I was allowed to do anything to the accounts and to her cards and debit limits simply for the asking. It was convenient for us in that case but damned peculiar, considering all of the privacy issues. Especially considering we don't have the same last name.

Women aren't quite officially real people in the CH, yet. Regardless of what the law says, until the practical day to day realities are changed, nothing has really changed.

Having said that, there are, quite a few, worse places to be double X chromosomed.




That last one isn't actually a good thing. It means they aren't good enough.
Practically is the same as saying not really. You do the deciding or you don't. I'd say that mostly, they still don't.
The rest are mostly minor details. Since women constitute slightly more than 50% of the general population they aren't really represented if they are only occasionally holding various positions and offices of real power through out officialdom, government and business. Yeah, especially that last one.
- That they do not have to do military service is their privilege
- They are not holding positions occasionnally but all over
- Not only can women nowadays most easily have fully separate bank accounts completely under their control, they even when marrying can have Güter-Trennung so that even ownership of the household is separated. And also without Güter-Trennung, a separate account means separate correspondence. The bank-correspondence for my mother was NEVER addressed to my father. And THIS is general rule. For some reasons unknown, your account runs under YOUR name. If it runs under the name of you both, then they at the bank will automatically put the husband into the correspondence as addressee
- the practical day-to-day realities have changed decades ago. It very often is a difference family-internally where many women still accept the rule of their husbands. Immigration has not improved this side of things, as most immigrants came from countries where the position of women is miles worse than in Switzerland.
- women in Switzerland ARE officially "real" people in Switzerland, with equal rights. A discussion points are equal salaries for the same work. The problem is known, but to solve it in full will take ages, just as in other comparable countries.

Quote:
View Post
I've also experienced the bizarre bank account thing.
I have to go through a little round of verification every single time I call on our joint accounts.
He called about my private account once, announced himself as my husband, and they immediately provided him with everything he needed to know. Privacy my **s.
Regardless of whether it is about private accounts or company accounts, we all have to go through a little round of verification every single time we make a phone-call to any of the banks in question. If they gave the info to your husband without any further verification it simply was gross negligence and most clearly against their own regulations. That your husband possibly has a certain "authoritative" way is no excuse at all. But possibly an explanation

Last edited by MusicChick; 04.07.2011 at 12:29. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #119  
Old 03.07.2011, 19:30
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,616
Groaned at 2,593 Times in 1,850 Posts
Thanked 39,708 Times in 18,721 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Nutty school hours are...
Something that occurs only north of the Alps.

Same with school vacations.

Tom

Quote:
View Post
Regardless of whether it is about private accounts or company accounts, we all have to go through a little round of verification every single time we make a phone-call to any of the banks in question.
Indeed.

I recently called to ask for a new Maestro card, as mine had ceased to work, and spent 5 minutes giving numbers, birth date, etc.

Tom

Last edited by MusicChick; 04.07.2011 at 12:30. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 03.07.2011, 19:59
ullainga's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: around Basel
Posts: 1,579
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,189 Times in 911 Posts
ullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Women's suffrage in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
-
- women in managerial positions throughout the economy
As Marian Keyes put it, "Now and then, when they've had a few drinks, their team has won and they're generally in a benign humour, men will let a woman or two into the higher strata of the workplace. Just for the novelty value, of course. Sort of like getting a pet."
I think the rate of female top managers in Switzerland was something around 3%? So technically the statement is correct, there are some. Just for the novelty value.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ullainga for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lausanne Women's group Southernbelle Other/general 0 28.03.2010 20:59
Women's Rugby in Basel Caoimhe-Val Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 6 23.03.2009 22:11
:) Women's drinks - Who they are and you! Sada Jokes/funnies 13 16.02.2009 19:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0