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  #21  
Old 01.02.2011, 14:40
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Yes but technically they were detained without reason.

Which means their freedoms were abused. They should have got the rioters at Davos, not after the event.

It's assumed automatically you cannot do something, you're harassed then finally released after the numpty reads the book he should know off by heart. After all that's why he gets paid.

There's a whole world of difference between a individual asking to remove a photo and a member of the police.
They were detained as potential suspects for causing violence in Davos. They were freed and should evidence come up of their involvment the police now have their contact details and relevant information from their statements. We all know how organised the Swiss like to be

Agreed it should have been done there and not after but we all know Switzerland is a bit special from time to time. I still think you are asking for a world of trouble if you start drawing attention to yourself when the police look like they mean business.

Common sense would tell me to keep my head down.

I think grand statements of freedom abuse and rights being abused should be bandied about a bit less really. When in Rome and all that......

I wish there'd been more of this kind of action at the London riots.
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  #22  
Old 01.02.2011, 14:47
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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since when has it been appropriate for the police to round up people based solely on what they're wearing, on a train, after the event?
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  #23  
Old 01.02.2011, 14:53
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Not really although I see what you mean in some ways.

There had been violence in Davos from the riots and from what I understand, the police wanted to ensure they had as many of the rioters details as possible to make follow up enquiries easier. Nobody was found guilty of anything. If someone takes a pic of me and I don't know them, am I not in my rights to ask them to delete it? No probably not but I might still ask. The coppers checked and realised they couldn't so Mr Guardian man was sent on his merry way.
Actually you're not within your rights to demand that somebody deletes a picture of you - although there's nothing stopping you asking, and I believe most non professional (i.e. not press) photographers would oblige. However the difficulty for the photographer comes should he then want publish a recognisable photo of you where you are the main subject. Things get more complicated here and you would generally need to give explicit permission in the form of a model release for that photo to be published commercially.

Anyway back on topic.
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  #24  
Old 01.02.2011, 14:58
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

While I hate the Guardian, disagree with the WEF protestors, like the WEF and feel that the protests are laughably limp-wristed, I do enjoy journalists going toe to toe with the police. "delete the photo" my ass.
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  #25  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:02
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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The corporations and politicans are becoming more and more unaccountable to the very people who create their wealth and put them in power.

<snip>

Guilty before proven innocent.
Not in these times of terrorism and during the WEF, especially after a reportedly violent demonstration. The police are hyper-sensitive at during the forum, and many anti-terrorism laws now give the police power to do what they want - within a limited window - if they believe there is a security threat. There is no deifinition, AFAIK, what a "threat" entails, leaving it open to a simple, "I don't like the look of you" or "you look like a known suspect".

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Do that and break havoc on those black dressed bi4tches...
I thought the WEF was in Davos, not Zurich...

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Yes but technically they were detained without reason.
That's not the case. The police suspected them of being up to no good, and as explained, they can detain you while they check you out.
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  #26  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:03
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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They were detained as potential suspects for causing violence in Davos. They were freed and should evidence come up of their involvment the police now have their contact details and relevant information from their statements. We all know how organised the Swiss like to be

Agreed it should have been done there and not after but we all know Switzerland is a bit special from time to time. I still think you are asking for a world of trouble if you start drawing attention to yourself when the police look like they mean business.

Common sense would tell me to keep my head down.

I think grand statements of freedom abuse and rights being abused should be bandied about a bit less really. When in Rome and all that......

I wish there'd been more of this kind of action at the London riots.
Switzerland is a western country which has the peoples freedoms engrained in law.

Which means they stop the train and announce.. "Excuse me there's been some rioting we're very sorry to detain you all from your journeys but would you provide us some details? No need for handcuffing etc. All done in calm and consideration for all involved violence breeds violence.

(I might add you don't have to provide these details in the UK and you can refuse to assist.)

The guy was on a train with a laptop and a camera hardly rioting material.

I would object to being frogmarched into a field and having my hands bound. Further more I would probably sue for wrongful arrest/detention. If the guy was a knob he probably deserved it, most people aren't and in London many people did not deserve the treatment that was handed out.

The police are not above the law themselves and if I'm going about my daily business without breaking a law I should be left alone.

Equally I should have the right to protest "peacefully" without hindrance or excessive polive interference. Yes they have to protect people's safety, but they also have to protect the protestors.

The police are neutral and always should be.

The rioters in London in the majority were peaceful. The odd few let the majority down, in that case the police shoudl have used any means required to sort out the problem.

Unfortunately for the MET police they decided to kettle people that were peaceful, in that case it was excessive force and several MP's have stated so.
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  #27  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:08
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

London?? London??? this happened on a train in SWITZERLAND whats london got to do with the price of fish??
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  #28  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:12
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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London?? London??? this happened on a train in SWITZERLAND whats london got to do with the price of fish??
Read the thread, Mimi1981 brought up London.

Did you use the same efficiency when reading the other articles?

I hear Cod's taken a rocketing in the last month or so becoming an expensive fish. Monkfish is nice if not a little pricey.
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  #29  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:16
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Not in these times of terrorism and during the WEF, especially after a reportedly violent demonstration. The police are hyper-sensitive at during the forum, and many anti-terrorism laws now give the police power to do what they want <snip>.
Some reading for you

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The.../9780525950622

Synopsis

From terror attacks to the war on terror, real estate bubbles to the price of oil, sexual predators to poisoned food from China, our list of fears is ever-growing. And yet, we are the safest and healthiest humans in history. Irrational fear seems to be taking over, often with tragic results. For example, in the months after 9/11, when people decided to drive instead of fly—believing they were avoiding risk—road deaths rose by more than 1,500.

In this fascinating, lucid, and thoroughly entertaining examination of how humans process risk, journalist Dan Gardner had the exclusive cooperation of Paul Slovic, the world renowned risk-science pioneer, as he reveals how our hunter gatherer brains struggle to make sense of a world utterly unlike the one that made them. Filled with illuminating real world examples, interviews with experts, and fast-paced, lean storytelling,
The Science of Fear shows why it is truer than ever that the worst thing we have to fear is fear itself.

So are the people at the top controlling us via fear and does the risk substantiate the response?

Last edited by Cata1yst; 01.02.2011 at 15:18. Reason: Cleaned up
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  #30  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:45
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

For those interested in the legal basis for detaining people and asking for their indentification, here the Polizeigesetz of the Canton of Grison:

---
III. Polizeiliche Massnahmen
Art. 9 Anhaltung, Identitätsfeststellung
1 Die Kantonspolizei kann zur Erfüllung einer polizeilichen Aufgabe eine Person anhalten, deren Identität feststellen und abklären, ob nach ihr, ihrem Fahrzeug oder Tieren und anderen Sachen, die sie mitführt, gefahndet wird.
2 Die angehaltene Person ist verpflichtet, auf Verlangen Angaben zur Per-son zu machen, mitgeführte Ausweise vorzulegen, Sachen in ihrem Gewahrsam vorzuzeigen und zu diesem Zweck Behältnisse und Fahrzeuge zu öffnen.
3 Die Kantonspolizei kann die angehaltene Person auf die Dienststelle führen, wenn deren Identität an Ort nicht sicher oder nur mit erheblichen Schwierigkeiten feststellbar ist oder wenn sie diese Person verdächtigt, falsche Angaben zu machen sowie Sachen oder Fahrzeuge unrechtmässig mitzuführen.
4 Die Kantonspolizei kann die betreffende Person in den in Absatz 3 genannten Fällen vorübergehend festnehmen, längstens 12 Stunden.
---

If you have problems with the law, launch an initiative... of course you would have to live in the Canton... no luck for pommy reporters.
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  #31  
Old 01.02.2011, 15:51
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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For those interested in the legal basis for detaining people and asking for their indentification, here the Polizeigesetz of the Canton of Grison:

---
III. Polizeiliche Massnahmen
Art. 9 Anhaltung, Identitätsfeststellung
1 Die Kantonspolizei kann zur Erfüllung einer polizeilichen Aufgabe eine Person anhalten, deren Identität feststellen und abklären, ob nach ihr, ihrem Fahrzeug oder Tieren und anderen Sachen, die sie mitführt, gefahndet wird.
2 Die angehaltene Person ist verpflichtet, auf Verlangen Angaben zur Per-son zu machen, mitgeführte Ausweise vorzulegen, Sachen in ihrem Gewahrsam vorzuzeigen und zu diesem Zweck Behältnisse und Fahrzeuge zu öffnen.
3 Die Kantonspolizei kann die angehaltene Person auf die Dienststelle führen, wenn deren Identität an Ort nicht sicher oder nur mit erheblichen Schwierigkeiten feststellbar ist oder wenn sie diese Person verdächtigt, falsche Angaben zu machen sowie Sachen oder Fahrzeuge unrechtmässig mitzuführen.
4 Die Kantonspolizei kann die betreffende Person in den in Absatz 3 genannten Fällen vorübergehend festnehmen, längstens 12 Stunden.
---

If you have problems with the law, launch an initiative... of course you would have to live in the Canton... no luck for pommy reporters.
What happens if you provide no papers? Would this be considered a false statement?
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  #32  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:07
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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So are the people at the top controlling us via fear...
Yes. Did you only just realise this?

I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with it. Just the why it happens.

It is akin to the avoiding violence situation, discussed on another thread about "violent Switzerland". When confronted by a bunch of youths who are clearly looking for trouble, you avoid them.

Likewise when confronted by a bunch of riot police, in a (highly) charged situation, you don't try to be clever. You may feel you have the superior moral ground, but in reality, you'll come down with a bump.

As far as I can see, saying you look like a suspect or known troublemaker is legit grounds for a policeman to detain you and check your identity. If s/he has to do this for 20 other people at the same time, you can expect a lengthy delay.

What he was wearing and the suitcase/laptop he had with him are irrelevant. For all the policeman knows, it could be a disguise.

Certainly, the instruction to delete material was incorrect. That is a clear case of attempted bullying. The rest, however, appears above-board.

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...and does the risk substantiate the response?
Personally, I think not. However, I have only 1 vote, andI can only use it in the UK.
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  #33  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:07
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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What happens if you provide no papers? Would this be considered a false statement?
No, you don't have to carry papers such as a passport or ID in Switzerland (Ausweispflicht). If you cannot prove your Identity the police can take you to the police stations to ascertain your Identity.
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  #34  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:16
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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No, you don't have to carry papers such as a passport or ID in Switzerland (Ausweispflicht). If you cannot prove your Identity the police can take you to the police stations to ascertain your Identity.
Well they have 12 hours to try. Then you walk
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Old 01.02.2011, 16:19
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Well they have 12 hours to try. Then you walk
If they can't ID you, then likely as not, you'll walk... straight to the airport, along with some officers to see you on your way.
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  #36  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:34
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

If I was being a bit well tight arsed.

How can you be deported if they don't know who you are and you have no papers?
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  #37  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:37
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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If they can't ID you, then likely as not, you'll walk... straight to the airport, along with some officers to see you on your way.
Awesome.. free trip back home.

"Gotta go.. take it easy.!"
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  #38  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:41
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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If they can't ID you, then likely as not, you'll walk... straight to the airport, along with some officers to see you on your way.
Not fair. The Swiss get a free holiday to anywhere they want "oh! I live in Thailand!" and the foreigners get sent home.
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  #39  
Old 01.02.2011, 16:56
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Agreed. At least the policeman spoke English. I don't suppose he had to and I bet the journo couldn't speak German, French or Italian (his English skills leave a lot to be desired too).
Well, if the Guardian are using journalists to cover Switzerland who don't know any of the local languages, that speaks volumes for the quality of the stories they will be sending home.
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Old 01.02.2011, 17:09
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Re: Guardian Davos journalist's sinister encounter with the Swiss riot police

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Not fair. The Swiss get a free holiday to anywhere they want "oh! I live in Thailand!" and the foreigners get sent home.
Where`s the "Laugh" button....? (Thanks, I enjoyed your comment ...hahahaaaaaaa)
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