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Old 04.02.2011, 00:06
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

Only two words come to mind

Chemical Castration
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  #22  
Old 04.02.2011, 00:09
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Only two words come to mind

Chemical Castration
And if he turns out to be innocent 5 years down the line ?
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  #23  
Old 04.02.2011, 00:23
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Most likely, he'd been acused and trialed previously for similar crimes...and then let go after 2 months of rehab. It is fairly common for the Swiss justice system to be lenient for such cases.
Wow, if you did something similar, with regard to speeding or running a red light in an egregious manner, you wouldn't get your license back for at least a month. It might even be 3 months if the offense was considered reprehensible enough.

Just to let you know where I stand. I would never advocate that a speeder be shot in the head...
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Old 04.02.2011, 01:15
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

Children and mentally handicapped people have been abused but still, some Forum members just want to use it as a dig against the Swiss.

I don't have to worry about not having a university degree thees days to communicate here. Seems pointing the finger and passing the buck is enough!
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  #25  
Old 04.02.2011, 01:31
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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This is not the first case that I have heard about form Bern. Is Bern softer on paedophiles than other Kantons?
Maybe Bern is just better at catching them?

He was arrested in Zofingen AG last April. The media announcement was held in Bern.

He worked in Ins (Canton Bern near Neuchâtel), in Appenzell, in B-W Germany, in Gümligen Bern, and lastly in Zofingen Aargau. He had a long career and many more details are in tonight's "Blick am Abend", page 4.

Well let us hope he isn't going to be left alone anymore!

Don't forget the male teacher that murdered the girl in Lincolnshire. Nor the beast from Belgium, nor the two Austrians. It has happened everywhere, and still it is shocking. It is good that he didn't kill them!
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  #26  
Old 04.02.2011, 01:38
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Children and mentally handicapped people have been abused but still, some Forum members just want to use it as a dig against the Swiss.
I don't think the crime is "against the Swiss", I do think something more should have been done in 2003 when he was accused by the 13 year old retarded girl of sexual abuse.

And whether we like it or not, it is now known in Europe for the past 2 days: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12339534

Last edited by Ittigen; 04.02.2011 at 01:55.
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Old 04.02.2011, 02:51
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Children and mentally handicapped people have been abused but still, some Forum members just want to use it as a dig against the Swiss.

I don't have to worry about not having a university degree thees days to communicate here. Seems pointing the finger and passing the buck is enough!
I don't think that one race is any more prone to paedophilia than another.

However, there are some governments that do more to protect their children than others.

We have had this discussion before I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you of the following- (it doesn't take a college degree to notice them, but sometimes it does take a college degree to fight them, which leaves many ignorant of their rights)

1. The reluctance to change the law on statute of limitations because it would be a major legal headache

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...ml?cid=7072842

2. laws that prevent Police to effectively pursue on-line paedophiles
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=28602100

3. Reluctance for Switzerland to come into line with other European countries to deter those seeking teen prostitutes
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Prostitution is legal in Switzerland. The age of consent is 16, although if the age gap between parties is three years or less – for example between a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old – no charges can be brought.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Arc...ml?cid=7002010

4. Reluctance to extradite Polanski to the US to stand trial, but Polanski wasn't the only case
Quote:
"We have attempted to obtain an arrest warrant but because breaching a Sex Offenders Register is not an offence in Switzerland, we have been unable to obtain a warrant.
"We realise this is not only frustrating for ourselves but also to the victim in this case."
Guelbert's victim, now 27, told the Derby Telegraph she was shocked he could not be extradited to the UK.
She said: "At least I know that if he never returns to England, myself and my children will always be safe. That has to be my priority.
"Before he went to Switzerland, he must have known that he could get away with it. He must have looked into which countries would extradite him.
"I hope the Swiss authorities keep a close eye on him. I would hate for him to ruin some other child's life in the way that he ruined mine."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-1950287.html

And there's more, but I think that's enough.

Yes, to fight all this you need a degree, preferably a law degree, but even then, unless the law is on your side you don't have a chance and in Switzerland the law....... Well I'll let you do the comparison.

And for those with a chip on their shoulder about not having a degree.

I have a friend- a model student who has returned to college as a mature student. She is a single mother, going to college for the first time. She lives with her children whom have handicaps, she herself has several disabilities and lives with constant pain. She lives in rented accommodation in a deprived area. She is a straight 'A' student, a model student. She will become a family law attorney, so that she can use her direct experience to fight for children's rights.
That is what you do when you are sick of others who have a degree when you don't. It is also what drove me. Not everyone gets it on a plate, some of us stop moaning at those who have degrees and get our own.
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  #28  
Old 04.02.2011, 09:43
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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I don't think the crime is "against the Swiss", I do think something more should have been done in 2003 when he was accused by the 13 year old retarded girl of sexual abuse.

And whether we like it or not, it is now known in Europe for the past 2 days: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12339534
This by the way is not an isolated incident. If you do some research, you will find ample cases of sexual abuse where the bad guy is let off the hook fairly quickly. I mean, it's nice to keep crime rates from rising...but what about the victims?
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  #29  
Old 04.02.2011, 10:07
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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This by the way is not an isolated incident. If you do some research, you will find ample cases of sexual abuse where the bad guy is let off the hook fairly quickly. I mean, it's nice to keep crime rates from rising...but what about the victims?
And after you wonder why victims don't speak out loud! If they do speak and nothing is done, they have this ''Potentially victim of abuse/liers/attention seeker/reputation killer'' sticker on their forehead.

Since nothing as been done to the abuser, it leave people with doubt about the victim's words/motive.
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  #30  
Old 04.02.2011, 21:23
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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And if he turns out to be innocent 5 years down the line ?


Why would over 100 people falsely accuse the same man? As I understand he's also confessed it himself. In such cases, the case is clear. Chemical Castration. Thinking back to the Criminology degree I did, Therapy in cases such as this has a very low chance of success. Chemical castration need not be painful - but will remove a pathological physical urge for good, protecting both the abuser and and future victims.
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  #31  
Old 04.02.2011, 21:40
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

I think you are partly right with the chemical castration. It might remove the possibilty of penetration with a penis, but many perverts get their pleasures by rape using utensils. Or am I wrong?
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  #32  
Old 09.02.2011, 15:56
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12339534
"One of the central questions of this investigation is how such levels of abuse could go undetected for so long," said Gabriele Berger, head of Bern police's special investigations unit.

I suppose after 30 years activity he became expert at avoiding detection. And as he was arrested last April, why do we hear about it now? Why the secrecy?
One reason someone can avoid being detected in such cases is that there is very often (usually) only 1 person on a night shift. Same applies to old people's homes. I've always found this to be bordering on criminal and is totally unfair to staff and, as has been proved, to the inmates.

Don't know if this still applies but, despite the flaws in the NHS system, 30 years ago 1 person on a night shift in a hospital or home was illegal.
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  #33  
Old 09.02.2011, 16:17
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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One reason someone can avoid being detected in such cases is that there is very often (usually) only 1 person on a night shift. Same applies to old people's homes. I've always found this to be bordering on criminal and is totally unfair to staff and, as has been proved, to the inmates.

Don't know if this still applies but, despite the flaws in the NHS system, 30 years ago 1 person on a night shift in a hospital or home was illegal.
Playing Devil's advocate, I am not so sure. It may be too simplistic to make this correlation.

There are plenty of examples of "systemic" abuse, where a group of people in charge of minors were abusing their wards and the system. This really wasn't a case of less is more, rather the opposite in fact.

Regarding your NHS example, it is possible that it was illegal to have <1 person on-site simply from a safety point of view, rather than a "big-brother-no-funny-business" point of view. Nevermind the unions protecting their members' jobs.

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Chemical Castration.
Don't you risk violating their rights in doing so? I'm not one to say an abuser has more rights than the victim. Not at all. However, I do believe that the law should be seen to act within the legal and moral framework society sets it. Unless you can prove a medical need for such an approach, then it would contravene the perpetrator's rights. Or no?
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  #34  
Old 09.02.2011, 16:22
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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I think you are partly right with the chemical castration. It might remove the possibilty of penetration with a penis, but many perverts get their pleasures by rape using utensils. Or am I wrong?
The idea of castration is not to remove the genitalia to "remove the offending object" as it were, but to remove the desire or need to perform such actions. I thought everyone was aware of this?
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Old 09.02.2011, 17:25
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Why would over 100 people falsely accuse the same man? As I understand he's also confessed it himself. In such cases, the case is clear. Chemical Castration. Thinking back to the Criminology degree I did, Therapy in cases such as this has a very low chance of success. Chemical castration need not be painful - but will remove a pathological physical urge for good, protecting both the abuser and and future victims.
Chemical castration is not a permanent solution, i.e. a one time execution. The drugs need to be constantly administered else the castration will reverse itself.
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  #36  
Old 09.02.2011, 17:33
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Chemical castration is not a permanent solution
No, but I am not sure how humane it is either. From my point of view removing the desire is just symptomatic approach. We need to deal with the root causes of these horrific crimes. Unfortunatley there is not always an easy answer.
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  #37  
Old 09.02.2011, 17:41
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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Why would over 100 people falsely accuse the same man? As I understand he's also confessed it himself. In such cases, the case is clear. Chemical Castration. Thinking back to the Criminology degree I did, Therapy in cases such as this has a very low chance of success. Chemical castration need not be painful - but will remove a pathological physical urge for good, protecting both the abuser and and future victims.
What if 80 accussed him ? Would that be castration too. How about 60 ? or 40 ? or maybe 10 ?

There are plenty of cults where people are brainwahed and you could line 100 of them up and they would say the same thing about someone if told earlier to do so. Certainly the chance of someone being innocent in this case is extremely small, but it might be the case, so you should not put an irreversible condition on them in case you are wrong.

I hadnt realised it was not permament though as UPH said earlier, so if it is temporary then it is a reasonable sentence (though I dont agree with it myself) as you can go back.

However the "string em up" sentencing for any crime comes not from sensibile legal procedure, but from bowing to lynch mob pressure.
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  #38  
Old 09.02.2011, 17:53
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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No, but I am not sure how humane it is either. From my point of view removing the desire is just symptomatic approach. We need to deal with the root causes of these horrific crimes. Unfortunatley there is not always an easy answer.
One could argue that removing the desire or urge to do these things is dealing with the root cause.
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Old 09.02.2011, 18:04
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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One could argue that removing the desire or urge to do these things is dealing with the root cause.
One could and I would take the opportunity to take you up on that argument.
I don't believe that it is due to the fact that normal sexual behaviour is not seen as a crime around the world but rather something special that brings people closer together (literally ). In these cases however the sexual behaviour is deviant and causes pain rather than pleasure for the other partner. There is a reason that the sexual behaviour is deviant. That is the cause of the issue, not the sexual desire itself.

Your counter?
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  #40  
Old 09.02.2011, 18:09
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Re: Swiss care worker 'sexually abused 114 people'

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One could and I would take the opportunity to take you up on that argument.
I don't believe that it is due to the fact that normal sexual behaviour is not seen as a crime around the world but rather something special that brings people closer together (literally ). In these cases however the sexual behaviour is deviant and causes pain rather than pleasure for the other partner. There is a reason that the sexual behaviour is deviant. That is the cause of the issue, not the sexual desire itself.

Your counter?
Then what is the root cause of sexual behaviour? The hormones themselves, perhaps?
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