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  #21  
Old 11.05.2011, 13:54
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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Here most of the frontaliers work in the luxury watch industry, and the rule does apply. Same job=same pay. However I can see this might be much easier to manipulate in the Hotel/restaurant trade and small shops.
Yes, I would be worried about jobs without much added valued.

When they need more skills I wouldn't be too worried about lower salaries but I would get worried about not having any salary increase... your purchasing power should decrease in the long term.
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  #22  
Old 12.05.2011, 00:09
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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That's actually not the case in GVA: "Frontaliers" are taxed by the canton and only a minor part of their income taxes (ca. 20%) is ceded to France (to the municipality of residence).

Hence, "frontaliers" (which, BTW, are increasingly of Swiss nationality due to housing shortage) are the cantonal treasurer's dream: They come to work & pay their taxes but hardly use any of the tax-financed infrastructure (crêches, hospitals, etc.). Actually, if they lose their job, they even don't get their unenployment money from Switzerland (but from France) although they are obliged to contribute to the Swiss unenployment insurance system...

If the "frontalier" is an EU expat, Geneva (and Switzerland) even win(s) three times since they benefit from his/her education without ever having had to pay for it (Yes folks, Universities are expensive) !

Thus, if you want to be a financially healthy municipality in the canton of GVA, you should only build offices (no housing !!!) and have EU "frontaliers" come there for work! Of course (as usual), the Swiss blame everyon else except themselves for their own stupid, greedy laws
how does it work with health insurance for frontaliers? do they pay in switzerland or France? can they access medical services in Geneva?
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  #23  
Old 12.05.2011, 00:25
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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The other option that could make any significant headway in making "Geneva for Genevans" would be to ask one or more of the UN agencies to leave. Which would have immediate repercussions for the local economy in terms of thousands of well paying jobs, and a whole lot of money spent by the UN dissapearing.

About 17% of the foreign population is from Asia and Africa, around 30k people, and I suspect a large proportion of them are employed by the UN, and the various consulates and missions.
I dont' think this is about the people who work for the UN & the various international organizations. But since you brought it up. A whole lot of them (if not most) don't pay any taxes on their income and if they are living in France they are also not spending any of their salary in Geneva.

I don't have a clue why they are not taxes, but they should be. They use the same roads and services we do.
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  #24  
Old 12.05.2011, 10:34
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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how does it work with health insurance for frontaliers? do they pay in switzerland or France? can they access medical services in Geneva?
Most colleagues I know have subscribed a private French health insurance. Accordingly, they can get medical services where they please. However, the French insurers often only refund the services up to certain cap which is in line with the prices commonly charged in France. The rest than has to come out of your pocket.

The whole system is apprently about to change in order to milk the "frontaliers" (who are usually non-elderly people in good health) a bit more. Discussions appear to be ongoing...
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Old 12.05.2011, 11:54
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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I don't have a clue why they are not taxes, but they should be. They use the same roads and services we do.
Since many countries fund the international organizations, many of them feel is not right to give part of that money to a single country. At least that is my interpretation.

I think they do pay taxes once they retire.
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  #26  
Old 12.05.2011, 13:02
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

it would make sense for the UN to move to Asia or Africa, I can't see why they are in geneva now.
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  #27  
Old 12.05.2011, 16:42
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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Since many countries fund the international organizations, many of them feel is not right to give part of that money to a single country. At least that is my interpretation.

I think they do pay taxes once they retire.

Well, that's even worse than I expected. "It" is not going to "one" country. Part of "it" (as % of salary of the organizations employees) is going to the country whose resources are being used by those employees. I don't buy it.

They should pay taxes like everyone else or not use any thing that is publicly funded, like the roads and that'll be great because it will help with the horrendous traffic.


Opps! This is a conversation another thread.... Back on Topic...
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  #28  
Old 12.05.2011, 17:04
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

Actually, that's pretty on topic... I am sure MCG will like the idea

I am in, let's make all those spoilt foreigners pay their taxes and since we are talking about it, they should also pay their damn international schools from their own pocket! Those prices are crazy for the rest of us...

To be fair, they don't enjoy certain privileges (unemployment benefits and some other things I believe) so maybe we can make them pay half the tax they should?
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  #29  
Old 12.05.2011, 18:22
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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Actually, that's pretty on topic... I am sure MCG will like the idea

I am in, let's make all those spoilt foreigners pay their taxes and since we are talking about it, they should also pay their damn international schools from their own pocket! Those prices are crazy for the rest of us...

To be fair, they don't enjoy certain privileges (unemployment benefits and some other things I believe) so maybe we can make them pay half the tax they should?
Why don't the they go to public school like everyone else? If they are paying their taxes, then they should pay AVS and unemployment too and then be eligible, of course. My point is they should be normal employees in Switzerland. I've not seen a convincing reason why they should be on some other system.

Actually, now that you mention it, these people who don't pay taxes, AVS, social contribution are also the ones complaining about the changes in citizenship laws that their years working for UNs don't count for Swiss citizenship. Well, why should they if they aren't contributing to Swiss society and theirs kids are in international private schools outside the Swiss system? You can't have it both ways.

Anyway this IS OT as the campaign is about frontailer not UN, et al workers.

PS, I never said anything about "spoilt" foreigners. Many UN, non-gov't jobs pay very poor salaries (even adjusted) compared to the corporate world.
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  #30  
Old 12.05.2011, 20:08
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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Most colleagues I know have subscribed a private French health insurance. Accordingly, they can get medical services where they please. However, the French insurers often only refund the services up to certain cap which is in line with the prices commonly charged in France. The rest than has to come out of your pocket.

The whole system is apparently about to change in order to milk the "frontaliers" (who are usually non-elderly people in good health) a bit more. Discussions appear to be ongoing...
Maybe ... It was supposed to change in 2007, so that all frontaliers paid into the french state system. I decided to jump before I was pushed and left the private system. I now pay 8% of salary for that + a private health insurance to top up. But, the threat was not followed through and frontaliers still have the public/private choice. The french state has further threatened to raise the contribution to 13% of salary... However with a wife & two kids all getting advantage of one contribution my choice does not look too silly. If I were a childless batchelor, I'd be depressed.
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  #31  
Old 12.05.2011, 20:09
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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Why don't the they go to public school like everyone else?
Because it is free for them? (i.e UN pays)

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Actually, now that you mention it, these people who don't pay taxes, AVS, social contribution are also the ones complaining about the changes in citizenship laws that their years working for UNs don't count for Swiss citizenship.
We all want to have our cake and eat it too.

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PS, I never said anything about "spoilt" foreigners. Many UN, non-gov't jobs pay very poor salaries (even adjusted) compared to the corporate world.
I know, but I feel better complaining about spoilt foreigners instead of underpaid fellows saving the world...
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  #32  
Old 12.05.2011, 20:37
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

After a couple of posts I thought it was time to read the article but there was nothing new there.

Considering that people in Geneva are 40% foreigner I always wonder what kind of elections we would have if you let residents (not citizens) vote. It would be hilarious to see Americans or Indians arguing in English to their fellow deputies.

The party could start right here: "Movement Citoyens Etrangers". Our first goal is to declare as a holiday in Geneva all the holidays we have back home. We will celebrate christmas, hanukka, chinese new year (the whole two weeks), japanese golden week, japanese silver week, vesak day, deepavali and every other important day for us.

We will end up working only 3 days per year and we will show the world the meaning of cosmopolitan city!

In the meanwhile... how can we (foreigners) get into politics?
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  #33  
Old 12.05.2011, 22:47
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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We will end up working only 3 days per year and we will show the world the meaning of cosmopolitan city!
People complain the shops are closed on Sundays. Now you want the shops open only 3 days a year and on those 3 days we have to work too??? Some how I don't think that will make things better.
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  #34  
Old 13.05.2011, 00:43
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Re: Recent elections - city of Geneva

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After a couple of posts I thought it was time to read the article but there was nothing new there.

Considering that people in Geneva are 40% foreigner I always wonder what kind of elections we would have if you let residents (not citizens) vote. It would be hilarious to see Americans or Indians arguing in English to their fellow deputies.

The party could start right here: "Movement Citoyens Etrangers". Our first goal is to declare as a holiday in Geneva all the holidays we have back home. We will celebrate christmas, hanukka, chinese new year (the whole two weeks), japanese golden week, japanese silver week, vesak day, deepavali and every other important day for us.

We will end up working only 3 days per year and we will show the world the meaning of cosmopolitan city!

In the meanwhile... how can we (foreigners) get into politics?
You as, according to your profile, a native Spanish speaker, should realize that in Geneva, most foreigners are
- Italians
- Spaniards
- Portuguese
- Arabs (primarily from the Maghreb)
and so the languages to be spoken in politics would be Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Arabic

Quite many of these immigrants now are in Switzerland longer than 12 years. THIS is why there are record numbers of people applying for CH citizenship.

The combined becoming CH of some Egyptian/Lebanese family clans in Glattbrugg who joined the SP has terminated the depressing dominance of the SVP almost overnight.
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