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  #61  
Old 04.04.2011, 18:17
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

At least she is funny, in a weird kind of scary way.

Blaming the 'foreigners' as the SVP is doing is so out of order, and their recent campaigns and posters have made me so angry and ashamed. As a Swiss, I cannot believe how they get away with it.

BUT - Switzerland is recently experiencing a huge population increase, not because the Swiss are 'breeding' but because the economy is very successful and there is a huge influx of immigrants up to 20%- currently very qualified and on large salaries. This is leading to a great housing shortage, especially in the ZH and GE areas. This is causing prices to rise out of reach of your 'average Swiss' (whatever that is). Forecast indicate that building land will be used up by the GE/VD riviera in 3 years time, and by 2040 for the whole of Switzerland. A sudden 20% increase in population,especially if said new population on high salaries have larger accomodation, several cars to take kids to International school and commute, etc. DOES have an impact on land, schooling, health, etc + energy requirements. There is no avoiding those issues and highlighting this is NOT xenophobic or negative, just realistic. How cheap and stupid of the SVP to use this as yet another hate campaign instead on working out intelligent solutions. Shame on them ... again.

Last edited by Odile; 04.04.2011 at 18:33.
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  #62  
Old 04.04.2011, 18:59
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

If the SVP was concerned with tackling the issues on housing, energy, schooling, etc., in good faith then fine.

But I don't see any evidence of this. All I see on what they are truly concerned about is crime (in which they automatically blame on foreigners), Swiss cultural identity (in which they attempt to define as narrowly as possible, e.g., Islam is incompatible), and immigration/integration (in which they will gladly exclude even THIRD-generation residents).

I totally agree with you; as a Swiss, the actions of the SVP makes me ashamed.
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Old 04.04.2011, 20:10
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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in-breats ???????
oups...after so many years here I adopted the habit of writing what I am thinking and don't care about hurting other peoples feelings...prejudice or not...but hey it's the swiss way and I am integrating myself...

...meant locals...although I will not apologizing...see, I am learning and integrating...
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  #64  
Old 04.04.2011, 20:14
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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oups...after so many years here I adopted the habit of writing what I am thinking and don't care about hurting other peoples feelings...prejudice or not...but hey it's the swiss way and I am integrating myself...

...meant locals...although I will not apologizing...see, I am learning and integrating...
I think he meant the grammar... So you plan on joining the SVP then? Cool...
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  #65  
Old 04.04.2011, 21:27
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

SVP is still a hot party...c'mon y'all love 'em...admit it! lol
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  #66  
Old 04.04.2011, 21:52
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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oups...after so many years here I adopted the habit of writing what I am thinking and don't care about hurting other peoples feelings...prejudice or not...but hey it's the swiss way and I am integrating myself...

...meant locals...although I will not apologizing...see, I am learning and integrating...


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  #67  
Old 04.04.2011, 21:52
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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But I don't see any evidence of this. All I see on what they are truly concerned about is crime (in which they automatically blame on foreigners), Swiss cultural identity (in which they attempt to define as narrowly as possible, e.g., Islam is incompatible), and immigration/integration (in which they will gladly exclude even THIRD-generation residents).
I don't quite follow that as many members are third (or even first) generation immigrants.

Anyway, the SVP is very much a tongue in cheek party and a lot of what they say is a parabole of what the mean and there is nothing they love more than some ambiguous message that winds up to their opponents (and the foreign press). If you don't have thick skin and can't spot sarcasm you should maybe not meddle with them.
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  #68  
Old 04.04.2011, 22:00
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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a lot of what they say is a parabole of what the mean and there is nothing they love more than some ambiguous message that winds up to their opponents (and the foreign press). If you don't have thick skin and can't spot sarcasm you should maybe not meddle with them.
A parable for underlying chauvinism maybe?

Plus, for all their "though-guy talk" they are amazingly thin-skinned when you interact with them in equally sarcastic terms.
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  #69  
Old 04.04.2011, 23:57
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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I don't quite follow that as many members are third (or even first) generation immigrants.
September 2004 referendum.

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Anyway, the SVP is very much a tongue in cheek party and a lot of what they say is a parabole of what the mean and there is nothing they love more than some ambiguous message that winds up to their opponents (and the foreign press). If you don't have thick skin and can't spot sarcasm you should maybe not meddle with them.
Sarcasm? Tongue-in-cheek? I have had many debates with UDCers and they are serious... stupid, but serious.
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Old 05.04.2011, 00:01
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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Sarcasm? Tongue-in-cheek? I have had many debates with UDCers and they are serious... stupid, but serious.
Really? I had some discussions with several "medium level" politicians. They were all without exception obviously pretty smart. But they basically all admitted that "yes, the federal campaigns are over the top... but I wanted to join a conservative party that wins votes and has the funds to get me my campaign for the cantonal level".

So in short: Intelligent but bigoted, power-hungry politicians. They probably even do a good job, but they do not have the personality or ethics that I would want them as friends.
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Old 05.04.2011, 01:06
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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Sarcasm? Tongue-in-cheek? I have had many debates with UDCers and they are serious... stupid, but serious.
I agree that there is a lot of stupidity among the rank and file. But I was reflecting more on the brains behind the posters and strategies. The posters are way too smart to be the products of simple conservative minds and people like Moergeli are a lot smarter than they let on. Of course there are plenty of simple-minded punters who swallow it hook, line and sinker, but the joke is on them just as much as it is on the opposition that is so upset about it. But that doesn't mean to say that somewhere deep in the mechanism there isn't a bunch of geniuses at work, and I would venture to say that a sizeable portion of the membership full appreciates that.
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  #72  
Old 05.04.2011, 01:07
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

I guess I must be speaking to some pretty "low" people. What I meant were the supporters, not the officials. But then, the officials did not strike me as that intelligent either, but then that might be a local phenomenon. The Zürich section might be quite different from here. If so, then there might be some hope that the party would evolve on the cantonal level.
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  #73  
Old 05.04.2011, 01:58
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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Cultural identity is not just a matter of language. Switzerland as a unit is far older than Germany and any Swiss feels "Swiss" and strongly about their nation. As soon as you have a strong patriotism, it is simple to get into nationalistic waters... I have not been to any other country where the passport you have is considered as important as in Switzerland. As soon as you have a clearly defined "us" and a strong feeling that you are the greatest country in the world - you are already half the way towards right winged populists. If you know who "us" is and you know that you are great - it is pretty simple to make people believe that "they" are bad.
Mostly your reflections are spot on, but here you are a bit on the wrong track.

The Swiss' suspicious attitude towards other Europeans is not rooted in a believe of one's superiority, but due to a 'small country inferiority' (ask the Austrians ) complex.

It was a lucky accident in history we never got invaded by our northern neighbours, or anyone else, and we know that. For this reason we get a bit nervous when our national airline is taken over by Lufthansa or the French launch another attack against our banking place...
We are at their mercy.
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Old 05.04.2011, 08:57
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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It was a lucky accident in history we never got invaded by our northern neighbours, or anyone else,...
With the exception of the Napoleonic invasion.
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Old 05.04.2011, 11:58
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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With the exception of the Napoleonic invasion.
Well, that "incident" to a large part led to our current statehood... so I guess it is somewhat of an exception...
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Old 05.04.2011, 14:57
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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oups...after so many years here I adopted the habit of writing what I am thinking and don't care about hurting other peoples feelings...prejudice or not...but hey it's the swiss way and I am integrating myself...

...meant locals...although I will not apologizing...see, I am learning and integrating...
This is what you mean right
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/inbreeding.html

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  #77  
Old 05.04.2011, 15:06
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

The SVP are so full of wind, that's why they consider themselves a vital resource.
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  #78  
Old 06.04.2011, 12:37
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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the foreigners are now to blame for increase nuclear power plant consumption.
I think the SVP is right. At the moment, there are 495 active users on English Forum. Assuming at least 80% of these users are in Switzerland, and using a desk-top computer averaging 100W, that's a total of about 40KW right there. Unless some of you guys pack up your bags and go back home, Switzerland is going to need another nuclear reactor pretty soon
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Old 07.04.2011, 12:33
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

The assumption that SVP made is only true if the jobs which the foreigners are performing are not needed...IF those jobs had to be done by Swiss then the power consumption would be the same.

Of course, Switzerland could make a law that only Grenzgängers can work here...must be SVPs wet dream
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Old 07.04.2011, 12:49
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Re: SVP: Foreigners to blame for Swiss Nuclear consumption

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I think the SVP is right. At the moment, there are 495 active users on English Forum. Assuming at least 80% of these users are in Switzerland, and using a desk-top computer averaging 100W, that's a total of about 40KW right there. Unless some of you guys pack up your bags and go back home, Switzerland is going to need another nuclear reactor pretty soon
My computer uses the same energy weather I work or surf on the EF. Actually it needs more energy when I run other programs than only the browser, so EF is saving us!
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